Advice please on best way to wire these speakers? |
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Jack1991
Registered User Joined: 05 February 2020 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Posted: 07 April 2020 at 4:13pm |
I have a amp which puts out
4x 100w @ 4Ω or 2x 300w @ 4Ω bridged I have 2x identical mid top speakers which are both 250w rms 8Ω and i also have 2x identical subs which are both 280w rms 8Ω. After reading all about ohms i still cant work out if i am best off wiring them each to there own channel. Or the 2x mid tops in parallel and bridged to 2 channels. And then the 2x subs in parallel and bridged to the remaining 2 channels. Or is there another way that would be best? Why im getting confused is because i read that a 4Ω speaker requires more power from an amplifier than an 8Ω speaker to produce the same loudness of sound. So now knowing that, if i parrallel bridge 2x 8Ω subs they will recieve more watts than if they if they are on there own channel each. But then as they are in parallel they will each be 4Ω so will require more power than an 8Ω speaker to produce the the same loudness of sound. But if they are on there own channel each they will recieve less watts but then they will remain 8Ω so will need less power to produce the same loudness as a 4Ω. If someone could help me out that would be great becuase i feel like im really misunderstanding this. 🙂👍🏼
Edited by Jack1991 - 07 April 2020 at 6:45pm |
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Peter Jan
Young Croc Joined: 16 December 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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Same brand/type speakers of different impedances need exactly the same power to produce certain SPL. A 4 Ohm speaker will draw twice the power compared to an 8 Ohm speaker. Half resistance means twice the power for a given voltage the amp puts out at a certain point. 2 Ohm speaker again twice the power compared to a 4 Ohm speaker and so on. But there's a catch... amplifiers can't deliver power without limitations. You can see this in the specs of the amp already. Without knowing what amp you have, my educated guess would be : 4x 70W @ 8 Ohm / 2x 140W @ 16 Ohm Bridged 4x 100W @ 4 Ohm / 2x 200W @ 8 Ohm Bridged 4x 150W @ 2 Ohm / 2x 300W @ 4 Ohm Bridged If you want to/can use 2 tops and 2 subs in a mono configuration, you could put tops and subs in parallel respectively. Each type (tops/subs) makes for 4 Ohm impedance or each couple gets 300W or 150W for each cabinet. That's the most you can get out of that particular amp. With a very important side note : can this amplifier work in 2 Ohm long-term ? Not every amplifier can be charged with 2 Ohm, certainly not long-term/reliable. Bridging means combining 2 amplifiers to get double power in twice the impedance, so a bridge charged with 4 Ohm means each amp in that bridge "sees" half the impedance, which is 2 Ohm for a 4 Ohm bridge. Any other combination will yield less power. Like every cabinet on it's own amp channel, will draw 4x 70W and that equals about half the SPL compared to the Bridge mode. Whether that's enough SPL-wise, I can't say, but a 3dB difference (half the power) is not all that much in terms of SPL. Depending on the brand/type of amplifier, that difference might be less than 3dB, because specs aren't always 'true', especially the ones given for lower impedances. Without knowing what kind of tops/subs you have, it might even be better to have not too much power on them anyway. |
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Jack1991
Registered User Joined: 05 February 2020 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Thanks for the reply Peter Jan, it is a Pioneer GM8704 12v car amplifier. It says in the manual it works between 2 and 8ohm. But it only gives the specs for 4Ω. I would only use it in 4 or 8 ohm anyway.
It will only be used in mono. As i will be joining the channels rca inputs to run off aux. Appreciate your answer too and i understand what your saying. But im still unsure on my original question. The mid tops are in 1 box each with a crossover in each box too. So was thinking id be better off keeping them together on 1 side of the amp (2 channels) then the 2x subs on the other side of the amp (2 channels) The subs are exactly the same both 280w rms 8Ω. The mid tops are exactly the same too, mids 250w rms 8Ω, tops 50w rms 8Ω Edited by Jack1991 - 07 April 2020 at 6:48pm |
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Peter Jan
Young Croc Joined: 16 December 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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Okay, car amplifier...
Had a quick peek at the manual/specs and it’s obvious the ratings are somewhat “optimistic”. At 1kHz with 1% distortion and battery voltage at 14,4V, which is only during charging, like in a car with engine running. Real world power will be a good deal less. All in all I would half the stated figures, especially when running of a battery (or batteries) that are not charging when playing music. Good news are the build in features like selectable HPF/LPF (can be used as crossover), sensitivity leveling and the simple way of connecting in bridge or not. Mid tops have a passive crossover build in, so each complete mid top represents an 8 Ohm charge. Subs same thing, each is 8 Ohm. So my suggestion to go about, would be to use the amp in 3 ch mode. Subs connected parallel in bridge mode on Ch A (LPF selected) and mid tops each running of an amp channel of Ch B (HPF selected). Input selector in 2 Ch mode not 4 Ch. Feeding inputs A and B with signal ( through an RCA Y-split cable I guess ? ). For Frequency I would start somewhere around the 10 o’clock position, roughly about 70-80 Hz and play with that setting and the levels of Ch A and B to see what sounds best. |
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Jack1991
Registered User Joined: 05 February 2020 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Cool ok thanks.
So to make sure i understand this correctly heres an example. If in future if i wanted to add another 2 of the same subs. I can wire 2x 8Ω subs in parallel to 1 channel of the amp making a 4ohm load (amplifier puts out 100w rms per channel at 4Ω) which will be shared equally between the 2 subs. Then another 2 of the same subs wired the same way to another channel on the amp. Leaving the 2x mid tops as they are wired each on there own channel.
Edited by Jack1991 - 08 April 2020 at 9:20am |
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Peter Jan
Young Croc Joined: 16 December 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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You can do that later for sure. Two Subs in bridge will get you (theoretically) 300W RMS in 4 Ohm or 150W for each sub. Connected like that each amp of the bridge is running in 2 Ohm, which is about the hardest you can charge those amps. With two times two subs (2x 4 Ohm) on each amp (not bridged in that case) will get you (again theoretically) 2x 100W RMS running each amp in 4 Ohm, which is more sensible in terms of charging amps. Each of the four subs will get 50W RMS. In terms of SPL that 4 sub setup will only be marginally louder (~1,5dB) than the 2 sub setup in bridge, but it's easier on the amplifiers and also less stress on the battery as total drawn power for subs will be 2/3 (200W total instead of 300W) of the two sub bridge setup for about the same net SPL (even 1,5dB better to be exact, but that's nitpicking really ;-) )
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Jack1991
Registered User Joined: 05 February 2020 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Cool perfect thanks 🙂👍🏼
The only part i dont understand is where you said "300W RMS in 4 Ohm or 150W for each sub. Connected like that each amp of the bridge is running in 2 Ohm" I thought if i had 2x 8Ω subs wired parallel, bridged to 2 channels, of 1 amplifier it would receive the 4ohm spec from the amplifier, as the amplifier wont see 2x subs, it just sees a 4Ω load. So in my case 300w @ 4Ω. So 150w per subwoofer. Not 2ohm like you said. Also i only have 1 amplifier, not 2. Im not saying your wrong obviously! Just im not understanding that part. 🙂 Edited by Jack1991 - 08 April 2020 at 5:27pm |
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Earplug
Old Croc Joined: 03 January 2012 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 7216 |
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When you bridge an amp, each channel "sees" the speaker impedance/2. So your 4 ohm load actually becomes 2 ohms. That is a very important limiting factor when thinking about using bridge on any amp. |
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Earplugs Are For Wimps!
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Peter Jan
Young Croc Joined: 16 December 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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You could see a bridge as connecting two amp channel in serie. Each half of the bridge (each amp channel) takes care of his half of the load., which is half of 4 Ohm = 2 Ohm. Total power of the 4 Ohm bridge is 300W and that's the same total power two amp channels put out when charged with 2 Ohm each. One amp 150W @ 2 Ohm + other amp 150W @ 2 Ohm = (no surprise) 300W @ 4 Ohm.
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Jack1991
Registered User Joined: 05 February 2020 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Right okay cool thanks i didnt know this. So in that case. Could i wire the 2x 8Ω Subs in series to make a 16Ω load, then bridge 2 channels of the amp then making the amp see a 4 ohm load. So i will then get the desired outcome. Or will that not work. The amplifier says it will work for 2Ω to 8Ω, will this matter with the wiring above way?
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Jack1991
Registered User Joined: 05 February 2020 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Cool ok thanks cheers now it makes sense! 🙂👍🏼 So in that case. Could i wire the 2x 8Ω Subs in series to make a 16Ω load bridged to 2 channels of the amp, then making the amp see a 4 ohm load per sub. So i will then get the desired outcome. Or will that not work? The amplifier says it will work for 2Ω to 8Ω, will this matter with wiring above way? |
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Jack1991
Registered User Joined: 05 February 2020 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Cool ok thanks makes sense now! 🙂👍🏼 So in that case. Could i wire the 2x 8Ω Subs in series to make a 16Ω load, bridged to 2 channels of the amp. Making the amp see a 4 ohm load. So i will then get the desired outcome. Or will that not work? The amplifier says it will work for 2Ω to 8Ω, will this matter with the wiring above way? |
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