Crossover losses |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | |
Fred_dibna
Registered User Joined: 24 September 2018 Status: Offline Points: 213 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 05 June 2020 at 7:20pm |
Does anyone know what kind of losses going through a passive crossover network can result in when you power a pair of p.a speakers compared to running the same p.a speakers biamped and not using the internal crossover network at all? I mean how many decibels spl output is it roughly, as a guess? Or is it not even noticeable?
Edited by Fred_dibna - 05 June 2020 at 7:21pm |
|
Digbethdave
Registered User Joined: 16 November 2018 Status: Offline Points: 406 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The driver is still going to get the required power. Is this a real question?
|
|
Fred_dibna
Registered User Joined: 24 September 2018 Status: Offline Points: 213 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yeah it is a real question I thought it was about 3-10% loss due to crossover networks I guess maybe in real worl spl output terms it's not noticeable, I should of asked in percent not decibels. I read a lot and depending on who writes or types as we do online it's supposedly about 3% loss. Someone mentioned 40% loss but then someone else said if the crossover network was responsible for that kind of loss the crossover network would be red hot. I was just curious really as to what losses there are and moreover what are the real benefits to running biamped apart from being able to power the low and high drivers seperately. I guess it's better to use a seperate amp that you can turn down or turn up than to use eq to adjust level of the low or high frequency drivers.
|
|
Conanski
Old Croc Joined: 26 January 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2543 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
A passive crossover by design will consume/absorb some power but not enough to be noticeable. The big advantage of bi-amping is it usually comes with the ability to do much better processing which usually results in much better sound. A passive crossover can also perform really well but getting it to that point involves a lot of time and experimentation.
|
|
Digbethdave
Registered User Joined: 16 November 2018 Status: Offline Points: 406 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
If you are powering it with suitable amplification the output isn't going to be 'less', the passive x/o will eat some, but your still going to be getting the same OP
|
|
Digbethdave
Registered User Joined: 16 November 2018 Status: Offline Points: 406 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hardly worth it on a couple of things on sticks though.
|
|
Fred_dibna
Registered User Joined: 24 September 2018 Status: Offline Points: 213 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I just wondered really, I know running mid/highs active to tune filter slopes between the low and high drivers and tune the sound to be better I knew all that anyway but I was just sat here and came across an article about passive crossover networks and thought I wonder if you do lose any power. But anyway thanks. :)
|
|
odc04r
Old Croc Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Sarfampton Status: Offline Points: 5482 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Not a lot is the answer, unless you have ridiculous high value coil passives on subs. Which is why no-one has bothered with them for decades!
|
|
odc04r
Old Croc Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Sarfampton Status: Offline Points: 5482 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
In the actual passband of the crossover, the loss is zero or as close to it as unmeasurable for what counts. The resistance of the xover in series with its output in the passband is practically zero. It only gets away from it as you go over/under its cut off frequency which is what gives you the crossover action. |
|
snowflake
Old Croc Joined: 29 December 2004 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 3122 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
10% is 0.4dB - so not audible
|
|
Earplug
Old Croc Joined: 03 January 2012 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 7216 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I´d say that the real problem with passives isn´t the power loss, but the anomalies that they can produce, ie phase shifts, notches or peaks - due to the fact that no electronic component is ever "pure", so will introduce some unexpected response. And heat over time will change the value, so could make things worse. But again - for a couple of cabs on sticks, etc. it may not be worth worrying about - or be that noticeable. The ear is a funny thing - and can actually compensate for these anomalies without you realising it. Look at psychoacoustics. You need to actually measure the response of the cab with some software & mic. |
|
Earplugs Are For Wimps!
|
|
APC321
Young Croc Joined: 24 August 2013 Location: West Midlands Status: Offline Points: 684 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
In many p.a. speakers the high frequency section is more efficient than the low frequency section.
One function of a passive crossover can be "padding down" the high frequency section with resistors that burn off the excess energy as heat. So in this respect running the same speakers biamped is more efficient, but you need more amp channels. |
|
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |