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Eighteensound 18NLW4000

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smitske96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2021 at 7:43am
@Peter Jan

The PD186 is from that same time IIRC. And something sticks with a topic a few years back where I saw the SB218 processing on a SB28 (they were almost identical). LA48 should still be no slouch against a LA8.

I would recommend the TS to buy one of the newer drivers, and build a test cab and compare to the PD186. If in the position to do some measurements, there are many ways to get some real numbers. And in that case I am still very confident that the 18NLW4000 or comparable will come out on top.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2021 at 2:21am
The real story will be in comparisons of the Bl(x) and L(X) curves for each driver… oddly enough, the small-signal T/S parameters are only a starting point for a design. That goes for the nominal sensitivity value, and all other free-air parameters too.

On the topic of high power, long term usage; the older PD drivers have an advantage of sorts when it comes to thermal compression due to the sheer bulk of the magnet, but I’d wager the NLW4000 remains better controlled and has improved ventilation when being driven with music.

Of course, using an optimised port and Class D amplifier with the modern drivers would be another step in the right direction.

Klippel data for the 18Sound should be available, if you ask nicely.

Edited by toastyghost - 10 June 2021 at 2:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2021 at 2:01am
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:


I doubt the 18NLW4000 has that worse power compression figures.

When in doubt ... the power compression graph tells you the story.
-1dB @ 500W, -3,2dB @ 1000W and - 4,6dB @ 2000W.
On a side note : I wonder why so few manufacturers provide those graphs Embarrassed

Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

Let alone the possible SPL with transients would be enough for me.

Fair enough if the cost, time and effort for only that works for you.
Whether that or other gains for certain amounts of money, time and effort suits the OP ?
That's why I said : "food for thought" and "your gear, your money, your d...."

Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:


Though the SB218 did not sound bad, the SB28 could/can replace two SB218's with a smaller VC driver.

That statement (initiated by L-Acoustics, I know...) is true by comparing the very, very first (~30 years old) SB218 (with LAB amps - Llc processors) versus the recent SB28 (with LA(X) amps - SB28 setting).
The difference in attainable SPL doesn't come all that much from using more recent/better speakers, but rather from the circumstances in which they work (amplification/processing).
Not saying better speakers aren't available these days, just putting things in perspective, that's all.
As always... your mileage may vary Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2021 at 10:25pm
@Peter Jan

I doubt the 18NLW4000 has that worse power compression figures.
A driver like the NLW400 has probably the same amount of coil area and a much more advanced cooling.
Let alone the possible SPL with transients would be enough for me. 
Good example of goinf from an old to a newer driver would be the SB218 vs SB28 from L'acoustics. 
Though the SB218 did not sound bad, the SB28 could/can replace two SB218's with a smaller VC driver.


@tc 
You could also look at comparable ferrite magnet drivers. To name a few: 18TBW100, 18HW1070 etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2021 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by vertx vertx wrote:


Disappointing... But when adding further cabs/drivers you gain an extra 3db, right? across all frequencies? in the passband?


From 4 cabs to 8 cabs (+100% gear) -> +6dB. That equals 4 times louder overall.
OR you only need 1/4th of the power and still go as loud as before.

Going from 4 cabs to 6 cabs (+50% gear) -> + 3dB. That equals 2 times louder overall.
OR you would only need half the power and it'll be as loud as before.

Now going from PD186 to 18NLW4000 might seem like a good plan on paper.
But both have somewhat comparable sensitivity figures, so in order to get that +6dB extra from a one on one swap, you need to feed about 4 times the power to get that +6dB out of them.
In real life use, that's not going to happen, because the 18NLW4000 will run a lot more into powercompression than the PD186.
The net result might be a meager 1 or 2 dB when all is said and done.
Just adding 50% extra PD186 cabs ( and powering each speaker the same as before ) plain and simple adds a solid +3dB overall, without strsssing any speaker/amplifier more than before and is going to be a lot less costly, compared  to replacing all speakers and seriously upping the required power to even get some SPL gain.
Food for thought ...
As always : your money, your gear, your decision Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2021 at 9:01am
Note that doubling the amount of cone surface gives you 3dB extra, however total powerhandling doubles, which also gives you another 3dB extra. Thus a total of 6dB potentially when doubling drivers.

I would expect it to be around 5/6dB extra over the 186's with the 18NLW4000. That would mean you can get the same amount of SPL with only 4 cabs instead of 8 (with the 186's). Note that you need some good port design to get the max out off them. There is an interesting topic running right now, with some cool links --> http://https://forum.speakerplans.com/reflex-or-horn-loaded-subs_topic106286.html#1053347
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vertx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2021 at 5:36am
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Edited by vertx - 01 June 2022 at 1:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2021 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by vertx vertx wrote:


Based on sims so far, it's 6db up at 38 hz from the G Sub, for a single 2 x 18" (after taking into account xmax SPL limiting).

Replacing all 8 would equal a theoretical 24gb of gain at 38hz across the 8 - seems like a pretty decent improvement.... 


One new speaker 6dB up compared to the old one, will still make for the same 6dB up with all 8 new speakers compared to the 8 old ones.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vertx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2021 at 8:27am
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Edited by vertx - 01 June 2022 at 1:36pm
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