4mm cable VS serious power |
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csg
Old Croc Joined: 17 September 2007 Location: bedford Status: Offline Points: 6086 |
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If the event risk assessment identifies that there is a risk to persons or property if non public areas are not secured, and this can not be managed either by staff or physical barriers then you are unable to manage and reduce the risk, and then you have to look at if the overal event can be managed in a safe way.
Im not going to get into a discussion as to the good and bad of risk management, but the fact is that this is how events, licensing and the law works. If someone climbs your stack and injures themselves or someone else then you could be held responsible if you did not take all reasonable steps to prevent them. Unfortunately we don’t work with the principals of common sense or personal responsibility any more. If and when something goes wrong and you did not do all you reasonably could do then not only do you have to stand in the dock, but also live with the consequences of someone being hurt or worse. Again, i cant tell anyone else what they should do but personally i cant and wont work like that. The job is done properly or not at all.
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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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billso
Young Croc Joined: 03 February 2008 Location: town Status: Offline Points: 620 |
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Hi I fully understand that and what you are saying .But if the local council the H&S the police the fire service and the insurance Rep say its fine what do we do ?
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csg
Old Croc Joined: 17 September 2007 Location: bedford Status: Offline Points: 6086 |
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In the case that the event risks are deemed that low, then it should be perfectly safe to put your racks behind your stacks.
Chances are however that the occasions where this is actually the case are going to be limited, and it’s more likely that someone hasn't assessed the risks correctly. Of course if you are providing a service then you also have a duty of care to operate in a safe manner, and would be held responsible regardless of if someone else had not done their job properly. Unfortunately you have to think defensively and look at what could go wrong, or risk the consequences. Over my many years in the industry I have had to defend two, very minor, very spurious injury claims, and on both occasions the fact that we had crossed every T and dotted every i allowed us to successfully defend ourselves from the ambulance chasing lawyers, who then went over the next poor sod who had not done their paperwork. Im not saying it’s going to happen but it can and does and is worth careful consideration
Edited by csg - 13 June 2021 at 10:16pm |
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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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billso
Young Croc Joined: 03 February 2008 Location: town Status: Offline Points: 620 |
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No worries and thanks for responding . You didn't do your job right and now you are.blaming others .
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imageoven
Old Croc Joined: 28 March 2007 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 2186 |
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Are you talking to CSG? If so I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion from what he wrote above?
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Keep pushing on, things are gonna get better.
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woody2
Old Croc Joined: 04 March 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1727 |
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eh? |
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GAZ.
Old Croc Joined: 16 January 2007 Location: Hertfordshire Status: Offline Points: 2433 |
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I have worked with CSG many times, trust me he does not do his job wrong!
His entire operation is carried out to a very high standard, and is 100% on the ball with health and safety and doing things the correct way. One of many members here that can offer credible information. I suspect the claims he speaks of are people trying it on to have a claim up. |
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100% Earth Moving Bass
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csg
Old Croc Joined: 17 September 2007 Location: bedford Status: Offline Points: 6086 |
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Well, let’s hope that wasn’t aimed at me…..but if it was:
Both claims were only defendable due to the fact that everything had been designed, built, managed, risk assessed and signed off correctly. If there had been any holes, trust me, the claimants lawyers would have found them. The most recent example, now several years ago, involved a performer dragging an audience member onto a stage platform we had built, by clambering up the side rather than using the access treads 5 metres away. The drunk audience member ended up scraping his shin, requiring a plaster from the on site first aider and no further treatment. 3 months on he decided he wanted £5000. To defend the claim we had to prove that we had: Carried out structural calculations and had followed the manufactures instructions building the stage All equipment in use had been inspected by a PUWER qualified inspector within a reasonable period Carried out a risk assessment and method statement and had fully actioned both Performed a instruction, walk around and sign off procedure with the person responsible for managing the stage. Had kept full records, dated signed documents and photographic evidence of all the above. As i have already stated, you can’t side step your responsibility even if someone else has approved what you are doing. Under the circumstances where something happens and someone else higher up the food chain gets sued or prosecuted trust me, you too will be defending yourself if you have not done your job properly. Take that as you will, but I suspect from your comments that you may well be operating in the false comfort of being able to hide behind someone else’s paperwork. It doesn’t work like that.
Edited by csg - 14 June 2021 at 7:50am |
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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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Phil B
Old Croc Joined: 21 November 2004 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2328 |
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It was gonna all be 4mm soca fella but still it was gonna be way too long ! At " work" we never run speaker cable to delays... it's either xlr signal, Dante over network or an RF link. Amp racks at delay towers with small gennys. Only time we get into seriously long speaker cables is in arena shows when video screens & sightlines mean the cables for mains & side hangs have to come from the back of the arena and to the hangs on trusses or swags... and that rarely gets past 50-75m . .p. |
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billso
Young Croc Joined: 03 February 2008 Location: town Status: Offline Points: 620 |
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Hi CSG I am truly very sorry for my last post. Far too many beers last night.
I have been to some of your events over the years and have always been impressed by the quality of your work and your level of professionalism. We have also met and I know you are a true gent. I will try and add something else constructive to this thread a little later. |
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Sinai Sound
Young Croc Joined: 09 November 2009 Location: Sheffield Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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In mine and fat_brstd world,
If we had an amp rack by each stack, there's a chance someone could throw a pint of beer over it, either accidently or maliciously My longest cable is 35m With a trench dug up like this! I was 100% NOT leaving amps behind each of those stacks. That venue was 4k cap Edited by Sinai Sound - 14 June 2021 at 12:18pm |
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
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35m is fine, in practice. If anyone has lugged some 4mm soca about, they’ll know you don’t really want to go much bigger… luckily, you’re losing so little in the cable run that as shown, it’s negligible when compared to the likes of thermal compression.
Edited by toastyghost - 14 June 2021 at 12:31pm |
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