Throw or not to throw? |
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doller
Young Croc Joined: 19 July 2014 Location: japan Status: Offline Points: 509 |
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Posted: 02 December 2021 at 10:18am |
So! It has been said that throw does not exist. Ok !
Why did speaker company's like Martin and Fane state long throw on some of their designs? Did they have no idea about what they were talking about? If I take 4x double reflex subs and some reflex tops I can hear them well around 5 or 6 meters away.. If I get some horn loaded subs and horn loaded tops I can hear them 10 to 15 meters away. I guess that isn't throw but what is it? does the term throw just mean you can hear them a bit further away? Get ya science papers out Toasty. Explain please.
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munkey
Registered User Joined: 17 August 2011 Status: Offline Points: 300 |
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This 100%
A mate had an ohm pukk stack. When you stood in front of it, you could feel the bass, but not that much. When you stood back 10m, you could really feel it!!
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the midtops!
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Esc4pe
Registered User Joined: 08 August 2021 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Are you allowed to link other forum’s posts in here? There’s a plethora of information on SP about this topic but the search feature seems to be skipping years of info!
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smitske96
Young Croc Joined: 16 February 2016 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1085 |
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The term Throw is more a marketing thing in that respect for companies. It will come down to the louder speaker is at the beginning, the louder it is further away. So regarding your example of the BR vs Horn, the stack with hornloaded cabinets is louder from the start, hence its louder 15m back. (This of course is a very basic explanation that not covers the whole science behind it). If you have fb, I could link you to a post from Rog Mogale on speakerfreakers regarding throw. Besides that one, enough reading matarial about it (would need to look it up)
Edited by smitske96 - 02 December 2021 at 11:13am |
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MPASOUND
Registered User Joined: 25 April 2006 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 257 |
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Louder over here=Louder over there!
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It's just bits of paper flapping about in a box.
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Tinnitus Rex
Registered User Joined: 31 October 2020 Status: Offline Points: 274 |
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As a side note, the lower the sub, the longer the waves get and often only the car park tends to get benefit.
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"couldn't we just like... use headphones?"
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VECTORDJ
Young Croc Joined: 11 June 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 513 |
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So easy.....Put a Home Stereo Speaker (8 inch woofer and silk dome tweeter) on a stage and play it as loud as you dare. Do not burn it out. Next to that set up a system with 2 folded horn subs, horn mids, and a large format HF driver. Tri or quad amped. Set volume so SPL matches the home speaker. Then walk 500 feet out from the stage and have Your Friend A/B................You will hear THROW. Now add 1500 people in between You and the test speakers and You will really hear THROW.
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APC321
Young Croc Joined: 24 August 2013 Location: West Midlands Status: Offline Points: 680 |
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For example if you had a 90 degree x 40 degree compression driver horn flare, and you also had a 40 degree x 20 degree compression driver horn flare and you decided to compare them.
If you set them up next to each other to compare them, you would find that that the 40 x 20 will be louder than the 90 x 40 on-axis, but that the 90 x 40 will have a greater beamwidth, but at a lower level. But the total amount of energy coming out of each horn is the same. ie. There is the same amount of energy in a 40 x 20 compared to a 90 x 40 but it is concentrated in a smaller solid angle. In this context you may have a 40 x 20 "long-throw" horn. So "throw" would imply directionality. |
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Tinnitus Rex
Registered User Joined: 31 October 2020 Status: Offline Points: 274 |
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Sound level meters are fun,Why not play audio golf with a friend?
Edited by Tinnitus Rex - 02 December 2021 at 8:43pm |
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"couldn't we just like... use headphones?"
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Conanski
Old Croc Joined: 26 January 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2515 |
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That's not throw but it is often incorrectly cited as an example of it. There are several things that can explain that result, indoors reflections from boundaries create complex interference patterns where bass is either cancelled or combined, this effect is completely determined by the size and shape of the room and the speakers position within it. I have personally heard this with reflex boxes in certain venues so it has nothing to do with the speaker type. A large stack of speakers outdoors imparts a degree of directivity to it's output.. depending on the frequency in question, and that increases the energy directed towards the listener versus spilled off the side and back. Also with a large stack, if you're standing at point blank range in front of it you're potentially only hearing a single box, but further back you are experiencing the combined output of the whole stack.
Edited by Conanski - 03 December 2021 at 3:57am |
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10920 |
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http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Sound/diffrac.html
https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=15289 https://archive.org/details/elementsofacoust00olso https://www.artalabs.hr/AppNotes/AN4-FreeField-Rev03eng.pdf https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=21046 These are a good place to start. But a simple summary is that for the same radiating surface area, in the far-field, the axially-normalised directional response of a subwoofer array is almost identical regardless of the loading method. Remember, you have to compare apples to apples; that means a similar magnitude response (measure it and use EQ) and frontal surface areas, with horizontal symmetry. That means that not only do you not beat inverse distance law by 'throwing' sound pressure farther with horn subs, but that the majority of common directional subwoofer array steering methods should also work just fine with horns too. The old acoustics folks circa 1920-1950 got a hell of a lot right... https://sci-hub.se/ is a useful bookmark, if you're a hobbyist. |
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csg
Old Croc Joined: 17 September 2007 Location: bedford Status: Offline Points: 6086 |
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Intensity of sound at any distance is simply a function of the energy produced by the source and the dispersion of that energy.
Throw only exists as a perception of the difference in sound intensity from different sources at a given position. Off course if you experience Throw then it exists in your reality but thats more of a philosophical argument than a technical one….
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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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