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UMIK-1 and REW outdoor ground plane setup

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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: UMIK-1 and REW outdoor ground plane setup
    Posted: 07 October 2022 at 9:39am
Originally posted by cobrasneverdie cobrasneverdie wrote:

There is some software that can import rew eq data, it can be exported and loaded into peace eq i believe.  This should make it a bit easier to try different curves and see how different targets sound without entering everything manually.


VituixCAD is what you want for that:
https://kimmosaunisto.net/

There's even a guide for making measurements with REW:
https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/VituixCAD/VituixCAD_Measurement_REW.pdf

Unfortunately, it comes with this warning near the top:
Quote Note! Single channel measurement systems such as USB microphones with latency variations by default are not recommended for speaker engineering due to timing and phase variations and normalizations. REW should not be used with single channel connection or mode for far field measurements because timing is normalized by the program. Single channel connection and mode is acceptable for near field measurements only.


Proper dual-channel FFT measurements with loopback are the only way to keep a timing reference, giving you the absolute and relative acoustic centre distance offsets - and acoustic phase response - in the measured impulse response.

You can enable the 'acoustic timing reference' function in REW to try and work around this, but the phase data isn't 'true'. To me, the money you'd spend ona UMIK-1 is almost always better spent on even a cheap XLR mic and a phantom-capable USB interface.

There are currently perfectly serviceable XLR measurement microphone options for <£50 from brands such as Behringer, Red5, SubZero, and Omnitronic, all using the same capsules. If you can stretch to £65, the SonarWorks XREF20 variant even comes with a per-mic frequency calibration curve.

For the interface, you just need one XLR input with phantom power and a 1/4" TRS jack input for the loopback. That gives you budget options such as the M-Audio M-Track Solo for just £37 at Thomann https://www.thomann.de/gb/m_audio_m_track_solo.htm or the Behringer UMC202HD at ~£50. The UMC202HD has some distortion issues when the outputs or inputs are maxed out, but that will not be a problem for most home or DIY measurement use cases. There's a comprehensive review with measurements of this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YquAMkHJYjA

Plenty other options in the <£65 bracket if you want higher sample rate capability:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/swissonic_ua_2x2.htm
https://www.thomann.de/gb/presonus_audiobox_ione.htm
https://www.thomann.de/gb/mackie_onyx_artist_1.2.htm

But if you can stretch again, the Steinberg UR12 or Focusrite Scarlett Solo are a cut above and still come under £100 each.

Add a 15-metre XLR cable and a 1-metre TRS balanced 1/4" jack, plus whatever output adapter you need to get signal to your amp - job done.

Edited by toastyghost - 07 October 2022 at 9:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobrasneverdie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2022 at 2:52am
There is some software that can import rew eq data, it can be exported and loaded into peace eq i believe.  This should make it a bit easier to try different curves and see how different targets sound without entering everything manually.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack1991 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2022 at 7:46pm
Cool thanks again Jo bg. Ah yeh that makes sense with the highs and off axis. I will have another play around, and yeh of course has to actually sound good not just look good on a graph.

Ahh nice cheers JohnnyB! Thats really good to know, i wouldnt of had a clue by ear how they normally set it so needed something like that to give me a rough idea. Cheers man.



Edited by Jack1991 - 06 September 2022 at 7:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2022 at 4:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2022 at 3:22pm
Have a listen and try things... The downward tilt in the highs could be useful, but there's a good chance that it is not needed because most listeners will not be in the sweet spot, but scattered around where the highs allready start to soften... So leaving it a bit hot on axis could be better for most listeners.
Try to measure where the ears will be, and measure in various positions to understand how it sounds around.

Make it sound how you like it best for your choice of music... Just verify that it sounds cool beside measuring good.... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack1991 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2022 at 12:39pm
Cool cheers ill give that a go.

For my portable speaker it runs just Aux input to my phone. So i am using the Poweramp EQ app. Which has a Parametric EQ. It seems pretty good and lets you add as many bands as you want. Various types of filters too. Ill give it a go when home.

So for a outdoor speaker would the target curve be just boosted bass and the rest flat? Or would a Harman curve like in the photo be something to aim for? Its not super easy for me to try various settings so to have something to aim for which people know works would be really helpful.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2022 at 12:26pm
Yes negative eq always a safe bet. So you could try a -6dB shelving filter that starts working at 100Hz and is 6dB down at 250 Hz ( so 6dBtransition between 100 and 250).
The lower the overall level and the more boost you need to feel the bass, so if you dsp has dynamic filter that would be a good use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack1991 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2022 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by Jo bg Jo bg wrote:

A flat speaker will sound boring outdoor with soundsystem music.
You would like a 10dB or more boost in the bass, but that eatsbattery so you have to find a compromise as always.
Rising the highpass a bit should make it easier on the batteries.


Ah ok cool cheers Jo bg, i didnt realise that. Im hoping to find a target line i could load into rew so i got something to go off. In regards to battery life Im not too fussed about that at the moment, rather get the sound on point, see how it lasts, and then adjust from there. Because as it is currently the battery lasts ages, also its Makita batteries so i have a few if need be. Do you have any suggestions for what frequency and Q to increase the bass?

Also rather than boosting the bass. Would i be better off reducing the rest?

If so any suggestions much appreciated, for where to start rolling off the +10db boost to the mids etc would be great. 🙂👍🏼


Edited by Jack1991 - 05 September 2022 at 8:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2022 at 8:16pm
A flat speaker will sound boring outdoor with soundsystem music.
You would like a 10dB or more boost in the bass, but that eatsbattery so you have to find a compromise as always.
Rising the highpass a bit should make it easier on the batteries.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack1991 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2022 at 4:59pm
Got my head round rew and the e.q section. Ive been measuring & trying out different settings with it to see and hear how it effects the outcome.

I set it first off with the target line to make it nice and flat. But it doesnt sound great like that outdoors. The mids and highs seem too much compared to the bass. 

Is there a "most used" frequency response target line that people aim for for speakers outside? 

Because again i can find plenty of information for speakers indoors with different 'house curves' etc but cant find for speakers that would be primarily used outdoors. I am using my portable battery 2 way speaker i made at the moment to try different settings on.


Edited by Jack1991 - 05 September 2022 at 6:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Norseman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2022 at 5:49am
following this thread
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2022 at 12:18pm
The main thing with all measurements is that you can verify that a measurement is correct. When that's the case, you can take start interpreting the data. Both will definitely take some time to learn and the manuals toasty advised are a good help. Read the manuals etc, try and measure something, if not as expected or weird, try again.
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