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2x MT122 + CW218
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Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 17 May 2016
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Points: 1293 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote concept-10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2022 at 7:53pm
Originally posted by Rune RC Rune RC wrote:

@Bams 
No offense taken. I get your concern. 
The reason for me writing in this forum is for me to cover the gaps. I am glad you highlighted it. 

If I go with a speaker plan and chose the suggested drivers, I guess that both phase and time alignment has been taken care of? 

It is sometimes hard to figure out what to search die when you don't know what you are missing. Can you point me to litterature or other posts that would help? 
I actually already have a digital crossover that could be put use. 


The MT130 is a cab for a big venue/outdoor events, they sound a bit off up close but very good and very load at a distance, not the cab you need.
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Young Croc
Young Croc


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Points: 628 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 8:05am
The problem with horns is they look so damn sexy but are also prone to influence eachother. if you start with a bassreflex system with a horn on top everything is quite alligned and so you only have to correct that one horn. of you start with multiple horns they all have different corrections for time, and besided that the time will start to influence phase and so on and on. Google for Time and Phase allignment. 
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Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rune RC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 8:19am
Yes they look sexy indeed :D 
But I definitely do not want to off more than I can chew. There is a lot learn as it is. 
I have found some front loaded 10" and 12" 2-way speakers on Fanes website that seem reasonable to build. 
Would it be doable to match that with two Tham15? 
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Points: 1843 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 9:32am
You're going around in circles........ tham15 drops like a rock below 50Hz


Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

In that case I would go after something that can go lower.
Tham 15 -3dB point is >50Hz. -3dB @35 Hz would be better.

With that budget in mind, I would buy some topcabinets from a manufacturer (secondhand). And build one good sub. Something like a SKRAM will definately be a good start.


Check your favourite bass heavy tracks on a real time analyzer to see how low the notes are. Even on 50-60 year old ska you can find 35 Hz notes or drum hits. 

+1 on rather having ONE kick ass sub over two mediocre subs that don't go deep enough. 

For no compromise, B&C 15ds115, 18ds115 or 21ds115 




Originally posted by simo69 simo69 wrote:

Originally posted by Crashpc Crashpc wrote:

So, I did some sims and thinking, got help from some forum members here (thanks) and elsewhere, and so I decided to take some action and try.
 
The resulting concept is this:
 
Not what I firstly expected and demanded. But still, this design shaves over 50l off, of the original compact enclosure. So this one is indeed very compact for 21" and hopefully with new shape, handles, sledge and wheel, I will be more likely to move it more often.
I plan to build one piece from waste wood to see how it handles and how it measures.
 
 
Sensitivity sim:
 
 
 
 
If I like the box, and it plays and measures well, I would like to have two of these:
 
 
can you send me the full drawing with all dimension on this box..?
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Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rune RC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 11:19am
@bob4 
I considered the Skram and looked up some plans, but got a bit intimidated by the complexity.
When I look again it might actually seem manageable. Would you go for 15" or 18" considering the setup I have mentioned. 

Second thing: 
Could I use a passive crossover for a sub like that or does it need to be an active? And if active how would connect the tops with that? The built come with a passive crossover.  
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Young Croc
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Points: 1092 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 11:37am
The scram should be an easier build then the 1850.
I think you look to much at the bracing (which is necessary but not the hardest.
With the scram you have only one angles cut, rest is all straight. 

You want to use a DSP for the skram (as for all) its not that hard to setup with some help of the forum.


Edited by smitske96 - 26 September 2022 at 11:38am
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Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rune RC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 11:58am
Absolutely. I agree on that. And it makes sense to go for one great sub rather than two mediocre. It will also make the complete system a bit cheaper. 

A DSP. Got it. I had sound engineer do the settings last time, so I will definitely need help. 
If using a DSP should I then not add a passive crossover to my 2-way tops? 
And if not would then do to seperate terminals, one for each driver? 
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Young Croc
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If following a plan (like the previous ones mentiones) you could build the passive crossover. However, it will only work as desired if the plan is followed precisely (drivers, tuning etc). 

Other option would be to run them biamp (one channel for the LF, and one for the HF) but you would need and extra amp.
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Points: 10919 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by Bams Bams wrote:

The problem with horns is they look so damn sexy but are also prone to influence eachother. if you start with a bassreflex system with a horn on top everything is quite alligned and so you only have to correct that one horn. of you start with multiple horns they all have different corrections for time, and besided that the time will start to influence phase and so on and on. Google for Time and Phase allignment. 


This is rubbish, sorry. Every source needs time & phase alignment, and no HF horn on top of a ported direct radiating driver is going to be exempt from that.
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Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rune RC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 1:58pm
I actually planned on using some old drivers to make the project a bit cheaper, so the suggested crossover wouldn't work. 
If I go with the 2-way speaker without the crossover it would actually be considered two drivers sharing the same cabinet and not a 2-way speaker. I guess I would I need to split the drivers into two terminals then? Or should I go for a different plan? 

Is there any way to avoid two amp's? 
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Young Croc
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You can go for a stock crossover like the beyma offerings. But those are definately not optimal. Other option would be to design one, but this takes a lot of knowledge on measurements, electronic etc. 

I think in your specific case is to best start with some secondhand tops. And build the subwoofer. After that build up some knowledge and see were it goes.
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Young Croc
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there is no way to avoid more amps if you do not go full passive which is really like back to 1985. 

If you find all the parameters of your speakers a rough crossover between high and mid isn't hard to calculate (wielding mediocre, but satisfying results). after that you still need a two way crossover and two amps between subs and tops. 
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