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Help with new venue electrics

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monkeypuzzle View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 September 2022 at 3:55pm
A friend of mine is working in a venue that has just had new electrics installed and they’ve put a 30ma trip over the main stage power outlets. The electrics company (with no experience of event power) are insisting that this is the only way to do this and are refusing to change this. I don’t install hard power so I don’t know the regs but I would assume that with a well written method statement and RA, a variable was perfectly acceptable as long as there were 30ma RCDs downstream. I’ve been asked to help them out and find evidence that this is possible and legal to give to the install company.

Any pointers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BJtheDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by monkeypuzzle monkeypuzzle wrote:

A friend of mine is working in a venue that has just had new electrics installed and they’ve put a 30ma trip over the main stage power outlets. The electrics company (with no experience of event power) are insisting that this is the only way to do this and are refusing to change this. I don’t install hard power so I don’t know the regs but I would assume that with a well written method statement and RA, a variable was perfectly acceptable as long as there were 30ma RCDs downstream. I’ve been asked to help them out and find evidence that this is possible and legal to give to the install company.

Any pointers?


It would help if you let us know what country you're in, youhaven't filled in Location on your personal details.
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Wikl109 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wikl109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 4:26pm
Sorry I'm not a qualified sparky but I fail to see the problem here?
AFAIK an RCBO has to protect every individual circuit on a distribution board now. That is the regs.
Every modern distribution board i've worked with has been wired this way.
I don't think i'd want to work with one that isn't, is there some specific item you're trying to power up that has a problem with this set up?
Or does someone using the stage power just like to live dangerously?
Maybe i've mis-understood what you're asking here?
Cheers, Chris.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BJtheDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by Wikl109 Wikl109 wrote:

Sorry I'm not a qualified sparky but I fail to see the problem here?
AFAIK an RCBO has to protect every individual circuit on a distribution board now. That is the regs.
Every modern distribution board i've worked with has been wired this way.
I don't think i'd want to work with one that isn't, is there some specific item you're trying to power up that has a problem with this set up?
Or does someone using the stage power just like to live dangerously?
Maybe i've mis-understood what you're asking here?


This is an international forum.

Different countries have different regs.

Now that we know that you're in the UK, knowledgeble people can offer you help.
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monkeypuzzle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monkeypuzzle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 4:41pm
Sorry, I’m in the uk, so let’s say someone comes and plugs in a safe but pretty leaky video wall into the 63/3 that has a 30ma RCD over the circuit. The wall is powered up and trips the 30ma. The way I’m used to it is that all venues I’ve ever worked in will have a main power supply socket, anything from 32/3 to 125/3 with only an MCB over it. I then plug in my distro that I’ve turned up with for my show that has rcbo’s across every 16a out or a 30ma RCD over maybe every hot socapex out or heavier three phase. Some distros I use even have a variable across some outs to accommodate things like lots of leaky LEDs.

Performers and audiance are safe and we don’t loose the whole show while we find the one circuit that’s just tripped the entire board…


Edited by monkeypuzzle - 26 September 2022 at 4:42pm
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Wikl109 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wikl109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 4:51pm
Sorry yes I did just assume this was a UK based problem, my bad.
Cheers, Chris.
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monkeypuzzle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monkeypuzzle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 5:02pm
Sorted. 18th edition specs up to and including 32/3 must have 30ma. Dull… but safe
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Wikl109 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wikl109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 5:04pm
Yes i've been reading through this myself. Regulation 411.3.3 in the 18th edition it would seem.
Cheers, Chris.
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James Tengo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Tengo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 8:30pm
It’s the term “final circuit” that some installers take as any socket on the wall… There are plenty of venues with 30ma trips on 125/3 and 63/3 outlets that are unusable for video (or now large scale led lighting rigs) We often have to educate the venue staff as to why their install is unsuitable for our use. For example Brixton academy has a perfectly located 63/3 that would be great for video dept to use but it’s on a 30ma trip…  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wikl109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2022 at 8:42pm
From reading a bit about the various revisions of this regulation it seems that 32a and above outlets used to be able to be made exempt from the 30ma RCD protection as it was assumed a 'Final Circuit' distro would be plugged in to these type of outlets. This would have it's own RCD protection on each of it's outputs.
Cheers, Chris.
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