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What size Amp?

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SnailSpace View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 December 2022 at 11:27am

Hello everyone,

Before I ask any questions I’ll let you know where I’m at - I’m currently taking the step up from what would be called a mobile/home DJ set up to a (Jamaican/Dub/Reggae) stack style  Sound System for small venues. I’m doing it on a budget and have some gear already and all speakers and boxes, the info/knowledge I’m looking to learn is more based around amps/wiring etc so I don’t blow either my amp or speakers and I get the best out of what I have. I’m not really looking for changing anythin I have ‘it is what it is’ speaker wise the only thing I will be adding is an amp, maybe a rack crossover (if I have to), adding speakon and learning how to wire in best configuration.


Rack:

Rack Mixer

Gemini pre amp 

QSC GX3 - 300w at 8ohm/425w at 4ohm (continuous both driven)


Tweeters: (to be put in there own box)

X4 RX22 (Horn) 8ohm

X2 Fane J.104 (Horn) 8ohm 100

X2 Altai mht-392 (Horn) 8ohm 40w

X2 Arrow PCT 1000 (Piezo) 150w

(Not sure if mixing various tweeters is a good idea, Will they need crossovers in the box which I have or if they will need a dedicated amp given the amount/size?)


Mid:

X4 Jamo 265 (12”)

150w long

265w short

(I presume my QSC GX3 will be enough for these?)


Bass:

x4 Peavey Black Widow (15” taken out of original boxes and mounted in dedicated boxes x4)

They are 500w continuous/1000w program/2000w peak

(I understand that they should be ran at 500w but I should have an amp of 1000w) so does this mean I should have a dedicated amp of 4000w?


So my first question will be given what I have what amp/amps do I need to add?


I’ve been looking at the QSC 3602 PLX? Is this big enough for my bass section or would I need x2? (Also considered a inuke6000 or Rockville 5000?)


Please speak to me like the newbie that I am as some of the more technical language is lost on me! Thanks in advance



Edited by SnailSpace - 08 December 2022 at 11:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2022 at 4:33pm
What model are the PV Black Widow? There were about 1/2 dozen different versions made and most were only good for mid-bass. 
What kind of boxes were they transferred to? If they are bigger that effectively reduces the drivers power handling. 
If you have one of the better drivers then 500w per will fully power them... may even overpower them on bass duty, so a single PLX3602 would suffice. 

You don't need all those tweeters, 1 rx22 per stack is plenty to outrun the rest of the rig.
Yes you need a rack crossover, a DSP based unit gives you all the tools necessary to crossover and EQ the system and provide at least basic driver protection with individual limiters. A purist may want a full analog system but you would need a whole rack full of gear to do the same job as a single DSP processor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SnailSpace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2022 at 5:51pm

Thanks for the reply! I’ve been struggling with the knowledge of process the vast amounts of technical information for a newbie is confusing.


The Black Widows are from HiSYS 2 RX (1508-4 SPS BWX SPKR) I got given x2 for free then another pair on the cheap so I had a balanced system and I also had some boxes with 15” 150w in so swapped out, as you say they are bigger than the original Peavey boxes and true they aren’t really dedicated bass speakers but as I say I’m doing everything on a budget and will eventually upgrade to better boxes, dedicated bass speakers and then sell the BW or use them in the Mids.


So are you saying the amp needs to be between 2000w to 4000w? I need an amp for 4x500w to 4x1000w?


Also are sound system rigs generally connected in series when in one stack?


Do you know the rating of the rx22’s? And why do you say only x1 per stack would the other horns make the system too high and would they detract from the RX22’s?


Which amp would I run the tweeter box through? Would I bridge it into the GX3 or PLX3602?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2022 at 6:26pm
You need a 3-way crossover or DSP to split the system into bass, mid & top.

The PLX3602 is fine to power the Black Widows. 2 per channel in parallel. The GX3 for the mid (Jamos). Again, 2 per channel in parallel.

For the tops, you need to find another amp. Something around 200W per channel will be fine. Use the best quality drivers you have. Maybe the Altai? And throw away the piezos!!  LOL





Edited by Earplug - 08 December 2022 at 6:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SnailSpace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2022 at 7:28pm
Thanks Earplug makes sense:

Found the rating for RX22:
160 W peak, 80 W program, 40 W continuous
I presume the ratings for the others is continuous rating:

X2 Fane J.104 (Horn) 8ohm 100w

X2 Altai mht-392 (Horn) 8ohm 40w


As Conanski says I may well use the RX22 as there’s x4.


I have read that some people put crossovers in the tweeter boxes to protect them? Is this necessary when they are split into them a box and using a crossover/dsp? I do have them as they came from boxes of speaker/tweeter mix?


What (affordable second hand / decent entry level) 3 way crossover / dsp do you reccomend?



Edited by SnailSpace - 08 December 2022 at 7:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2022 at 12:02am
Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

 The Black Widows are from HiSYS 2 RX (1508-4 SPS BWX SPKR)
Despite the power rating those won't really handle much bass with only 2.3mm xmax. And those are also 4ohm drivers so 2/ch will be a 2ohm load on the amp if wired in parallel... which is what happens if two boxes are just linked together. 


Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

So are you saying the amp needs to be between 2000w to 4000w? I need an amp for 4x500w to 4x1000w?
Given everything above you don't need any more power for the 15's than the PLX can deliver, in fact you have more than they can handle on dedicated bass. 


Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

Do you know the rating of the rx22’s? And why do you say only x1 per stack 
The specs are acailable online. Like most compression drivers these have a much higher sensitivity than low and mid drivers... 107dB vs 96-99dB, and that means they don't need much power to get very loud. For example if you have 500w going to a sub and 250w to a mid, a CD may only need 25-50w to play at the same sound level. 


Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

Which amp would I run the tweeter box through? Would I bridge it into the GX3 or PLX3602? 
Neither, get a small class AB amp in the 150-200w/ch range. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2022 at 12:20am
Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

 Mid: X4 Jamo 265 (12”)
I'm just looking at these.. are those 12's from the Jamo D265 hifi speaker? If so they won't really do mids that well and won't get very loud.. at least not by PA standards anyway. 
If that is the case you may be forced to rethink this whole rig... put the PV 15's on low-mid duty where they belong and come up with somthing else... (like some 18's) for sub duty.



Edited by Conanski - 09 December 2022 at 12:23am
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[/QUOTE] Despite the power rating those won't really handle much bass with only 2.3mm xmax. And those are also 4ohm drivers so 2/ch will be a 2ohm load on the amp if wired in parallel... which is what happens if two boxes are just linked together. 

What is 2.3 xmax? As I say I’m not great with technical specifics. Plus it will be x4 boxes linked together in parallel? (X4 Black Widow?)


[/QUOTE] Given everything above you don't need any more power for the 15's than the PLX can deliver, in fact you have more than they can handle on dedicated bass. 


So I could risk blowing them with this amp? Is there a more suitable size amp?


[/QUOTE] The specs are acailable online. Like most compression drivers these have a much higher sensitivity than low and mid drivers... 107dB vs 96-99dB, and that means they don't need much power to get very loud. For example if you have 500w going to a sub and 250w to a mid, a CD may only need 25-50w to play at the same sound level. 


Thanks this makes sense.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SnailSpace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2022 at 9:01am
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

 Mid: X4 Jamo 265 (12”)
I'm just looking at these.. are those 12's from the Jamo D265 hifi speaker? If so they won't really do mids that well and won't get very loud.. at least not by PA standards anyway. 
If that is the case you may be forced to rethink this whole rig... put the PV 15's on low-mid duty where they belong and come up with somthing else... (like some 18's) for sub duty.

I will eventually get some 18s for subs and use PV for mid/low but for now ‘it is what it is’ and more about the learning which is what I am doing now (thank you iagain! Responses are getting me to understand what I have and how it will work)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SnailSpace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2022 at 9:03am
So ehat (affordable second hand / decent entry level) 3 way crossover / dsp do you reccomend?

How should I wire the PV BW 15” x 4 into amp?

Is there a more suitable amp for the PV’s for when they do go to mid duty so I’m not over spending on the PLX3602 (or will that come in handy for sub duty later down the line anyway?) are the inukes any good at half the price when they do come up for sale? Just missed a batch on eBay. Are the prices/ experiences of buying good on here in for sale section?


Edited by SnailSpace - 09 December 2022 at 9:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2022 at 9:24am
Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

So ehat (affordable second hand / decent entry level) 3 way crossover / dsp do you reccomend?

How should I wire the PV BW 15” x 4 into amp?

Is there a more suitable amp for the PV’s for when they do go to mid duty so I’m not over spending on the PLX3602 (or will that come in handy for sub duty later down the line anyway?) are the inukes any good at half the price when they do come up for sale? Just missed a batch on eBay. Are the prices/ experiences of buying good on here in for sale section?



The best entry level DSP is definitely the Behringer DCX2496. Well worth the money. Analogue xovers depend on where you are and the market there. Too many around to really recommend one, other than if you go that way, get one with variable crossover frequencies and a phase button in order to flip the phase if needed, but really, go for the DCX.

If the 15's are 4 ohm (have you got a multimeter to check?), then just put them in series. 2 per channel as mentioned before. With the PLX3602 amp. It will be fine.

To simplify, Xmax is the (usable) travel of the cone assembly. 2.5mm is very little for bass. Some of the (silly) car audio bass drivers can have (or claim) 20mm or more...  LOL

iNukes - a bit of a lottery,really. Some seem to last ok, others barely get past their guarantee!  Dead



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SnailSpace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2022 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

So ehat (affordable second hand / decent entry level) 3 way crossover / dsp do you reccomend?

How should I wire the PV BW 15” x 4 into amp?

Is there a more suitable amp for the PV’s for when they do go to mid duty so I’m not over spending on the PLX3602 (or will that come in handy for sub duty later down the line anyway?) are the inukes any good at half the price when they do come up for sale? Just missed a batch on eBay. Are the prices/ experiences of buying good on here in for sale section?



The best entry level DSP is definitely the Behringer DCX2496. Well worth the money. Analogue xovers depend on where you are and the market there. Too many around to really recommend one, other than if you go that way, get one with variable crossover frequencies and a phase button in order to flip the phase if needed, but really, go for the DCX.

If the 15's are 4 ohm (have you got a multimeter to check?), then just put them in series. 2 per channel as mentioned before. With the PLX3602 amp. It will be fine.

To simplify, Xmax is the (usable) travel of the cone assembly. 2.5mm is very little for bass. Some of the (silly) car audio bass drivers can have (or claim) 20mm or more...  LOL

iNukes - a bit of a lottery,really. Some seem to last ok, others barely get past their guarantee!  Dead


Thanks I’ll look into crossovers.

I read that the problem with the inuke had been resolved and the newer ones were solid. But as I have QSC and know it’s quality im drawn to stay with QSC. 

Konanski “those are also 4ohm drivers so 2/ch will be a 2ohm load on the amp if wired in parallel”

They say 4ohm on them but did Konanski not mean that when you link 4x4ohm speakers in parallel the becomes 2ohm, I may be wrong in my interpretation  http://www.bcae1.com/spkrmlti.htm - http://www.bcae1.com/spkrmlti.htm
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