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Csub and BR tops - phase problems?

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siero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Csub and BR tops - phase problems?
    Posted: 01 August 2007 at 1:13pm
What is the phase os the CSub? Won't it interfere with BR tops? Like - no bass, because of phase inversion? My tops are Gamma15+Beyma SMC280 (or Selenium d210Ti - I'm thinking about changin them. 1.75" coil)

BTW do You have the spl and transient response measures for different drivers, not only PD1850?

I'm very interested in building 1-2 CSubs. I'm playing mechanical music mainly in buildings.. Techno, dance, rap, pop... What do You recommend?


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Sieruta
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2007 at 3:06pm
It will only interfere if the cabs are covering the same range and the tops are running full range, with the subs wired with reverse polarity.
 
Otherwise all you would need to do is flip the polarity switch on your LMS.
 
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siero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2007 at 9:58pm
Sorry, LMS?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2007 at 11:13pm
Loudspeaker Management System or System Controller or Digital Crossover etc etc...
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siero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2007 at 10:02am
I regret but I don't one. My system now are 2xtops, amp, Behringer 2x31 equalizer (Ultragraph 3102), laptop. Nothing more. So, am I going to have problems?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2007 at 12:17pm
Well then you are going to need a crossover of some sort to run subs anyway, so you can get something on a budget like the Behringer DCX2496 which is only about £150 new.
 
I think that particular cab was designed mainly for the 1850 as such I would guess either the Void V18-1000 or 1200 would slip right in, but you would have to get info from rog about which
 
However, the C-Sub is very much a subwoofer, if you do a lot of techno and need more thump than woomph, you could do with getting something like the USB bins instead.
 
Or look at something more generic like a reflex cab - Check out the B&C site for plans of a 15" sub or perhaps a smaller folded horn like the Punisher - I think unless you do a lot of big gigs the 1850 horn might be overkill.
 
You could also check out the tapped horn of phil pope - Apache H15 which is also flexible to work for most music and over a wide frequency range in small numbers.
 
What you choose should largely be dependent on your ability to cart stuff and your budget. If size and weight is no option there are plenty of high quality options.
 
Stu
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2007 at 12:18pm

Oh yeah you are also going to need a separate amp to run the bins which you should know already.

All mounts up this speaker lark
 
Stu
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
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siero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2007 at 1:21pm
Don't worry, I'm already looking for an amp. :)

As to xover, the Behringer ultragraph equalizer has a mono output with digital low pass filter, adjustable frequency. I though I could use that crossover for my sub. But I think a standalone crossover would be a good idea because my Gamma tops wouldn't have to strain themselves playing low frequences.

As to the enclosure - I don't really want a horn. They are pretty hard to build, and don't perform well in buildings (and I play indoors mostly). So I'm looking for a scooper, bandpass, or BR. I was told that BR doesn't really get everything from a speaker, and scoopers don't really play all that nice so bandpass got my atention. :)

ABout the woomph, You might be right. I don't really need that 30hz bass, my main concern is the kick. (but not 70-80hz, 50 will do) What do You think?



Sieruta
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2007 at 4:45pm
Well anyone who says you cant get a horn to perform well indoors has just been setting them up wrong, you can, but you have to be careful about where you place them.
 
Read this thread - http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=398 which applies to all subs but particularly horns.
 
The good thing about some horns like the punisher if you can cope with the build is that they actually use quite small cost effective drivers such as the Ciare 12SW which is only £99 in the UK. The other good thing about horn subs is by placing them in different ways you are able to squeeze a bit of extra performance out of them for free, which isnt something you can do with any other design. If you read the thread above there are lots of useful tips and tricks.
 
I keep pushing you towards the punisher because it seems like it will fit your bill better than the C-Sub, it gets to 50Hz quite comfortably and doesnt waste its output down very low where most of the time you dont need it anyway.
 
But its up to you, the C-Sub is a slightly easier build but I dont think it would suit your setup as well. Depending on the amount of people you play to a simple BR might be the best option even though as you say its the most ineffecient design. If you go with that option I expect dual 15" subs would suit you just as well as the G-Sub which is 18"s. Ultimately you need to weigh up the pros and cons - punisher is similar in size to an 18" bandpass but cheaper and more lightweight due to the 12" driver.
Everything is a compromise, so decide what you are willing not to have to get something else that you want.
 
Stu
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote everdark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2007 at 9:41pm
get ALTO x48 cross for about 90 dollars and forget your problem)
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siero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2007 at 8:57am
What's ALTO x48? Any links?

And what do You think about http://silversound.info/sounusbtr118.html#index.html that?
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siero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2007 at 8:01am
Hey people! Help ;)

And what do You think about the 18PS76 B&C speaker? It's cheap and it should perform well. I need two subs with as high spl as possible with nice kick. I can't afford PD1850.. ;/
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