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phase plugs

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TONY.A.S.S. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TONY.A.S.S. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2007 at 1:22am
With most of the stuff I design, the only theory to be found is the logic buzzing around inside my head. My experiment lasted over a period of three months, not solid work, but going back and forth and measuring all the way.
This is how I arrived at the shape of my first phase plug. I was aware that the opening in the Turbo mid was at the edge of the cone. I was never convinced that the pressure on the cone was linear. so I had to formulate my own ideas. I drew up a shape that fitted into a PD121 with an inverted dome. All of our horn throats are smaller than the piston diameter, and if you took a line through the centre of the circular opening and calculated the cone area either side of the line, the figures would be the same. This is the way the throat was calculated, I was also satisfied that I had even pressure on the cone with the opening in the most logical position.
Next was the overall shape and position. I used a rough shaped plug and some blu tac. I slid the plug in and out of the horn throat measuring each movement untill I had the optimum response.
I also learnt that after the first part of the plug has done its job, the remainder of the shape didn't matter too much. I tried both long and short plugs and there wasn't a difference that I could measure. I therefore concluded that the nice bit on the front was there just to look cool.
As I can always visulize diffraction around a shape, I was not about to make a plug without a smooth bit to follow.
My view on a phase plug is that it is there to stop one side of the speaker seeing the other side. It is common Knowledge that when the size of the wave length reaches the piston diameter of the cone, the waves bounce across the cone instead of radiating from the diameter. The waves become directional and beam, which as it happens is not the point. What is significant, is that the waves that bounce across start to cancel each other out. The plug prevents this from happening and a higher response from the speaker is achieved.
I'm sure there could be a much deeper theory involved whith plugs, but this is how I did ours.
The results of all this can be heard from the guys who have our MX600's. I make no comment on their performance. I let the comments speak for themselves. Measuring was done with LEAP and LMS.
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tb_mike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tb_mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2007 at 3:45am
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

....... I let the comments speak for themselves. Measuring was done with LEAP and LMS. .
Hah interesting...the computation on the martin audio file says it takes an hour on a 2GHZ pc to compute - you could just about have a prototype made after a few iterations on PC!
 
Quote

Calculation Solver Freq Element Size Time

1 AEBEM 3kHz 12mm 2189 23min

2 BERIM 3kHz 12mm 994 2min

3 BERIM 6kHz 12mm 994 2min

4 BERIM 9kHz 12mm 994 2min

5 BERIM 12kHz 8mm 2035 25min

6 BERIM 12kHz 7mm 2600 56min

7 BERIM 15kHz 7mm 2600 56min

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gingerbiscuit69 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gingerbiscuit69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2007 at 1:57pm
great stuff!
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Tony Wilkes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Wilkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2007 at 4:32pm
Come on Tony thats much too simple!! You should have padded the design process out a bit and then considered writing up a paper on it Wink

Well done on the photo's.

Tony
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tb_mike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tb_mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2007 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by Tony Wilkes Tony Wilkes wrote:

Come on Tony thats much too simple!! You should have padded the design process out a bit and then considered writing up a paper on it Wink

Well done on the photo's.

Tony

Bill Fitz works like that too I think , just builds it to see if itl work.
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Disco Stu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2007 at 12:54am
I like the way tony thinks, he already explained the same thing to me on the phone the other day but it was a fantastic piece of info because I thought ultimately that phase plugs did a lot more than that, but it seems not.
 
Tony you should check out how bill fitz does his horn cavity plugs, I think you might be interested in that.
 
Stu
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches
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Centauri View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Centauri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2007 at 4:14am
Nice to see a manufacturer making plugs that way - look good.

Stu, are you referring to the sliced PVC pipe method ? got link to some pics?

Cheers
Graeme
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mykey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2007 at 5:18am
I'll put some of my pic's on tomorrow
nice work TonyClap
but theres a lot easier and faster way of making them,  And each one ends bieing 100% identical to the next.
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mykey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2007 at 5:27am
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

With most of the stuff I design, the only theory to be found is the logic buzzing around inside my head. My experiment lasted over a period of three months, not solid work, but going back and forth and measuring all the way.
This is how I arrived at the shape of my first phase plug. I was aware that the opening in the Turbo mid was at the edge of the cone. I was never convinced that the pressure on the cone was linear. so I had to formulate my own ideas. I drew up a shape that fitted into a PD121 with an inverted dome. All of our horn throats are smaller than the piston diameter, and if you took a line through the centre of the circular opening and calculated the cone area either side of the line, the figures would be the same. This is the way the throat was calculated, I was also satisfied that I had even pressure on the cone with the opening in the most logical position.
Next was the overall shape and position. I used a rough shaped plug and some blu tac. I slid the plug in and out of the horn throat measuring each movement untill I had the optimum response.
I also learnt that after the first part of the plug has done its job, the remainder of the shape didn't matter too much. I tried both long and short plugs and there wasn't a difference that I could measure. I therefore concluded that the nice bit on the front was there just to look cool.
As I can always visulize diffraction around a shape, I was not about to make a plug without a smooth bit to follow.
My view on a phase plug is that it is there to stop one side of the speaker seeing the other side. It is common Knowledge that when the size of the wave length reaches the piston diameter of the cone, the waves bounce across the cone instead of radiating from the diameter. The waves become directional and beam, which as it happens is not the point. What is significant, is that the waves that bounce across start to cancel each other out. The plug prevents this from happening and a higher response from the speaker is achieved.
I'm sure there could be a much deeper theory involved whith plugs, but this is how I did ours.
The results of all this can be heard from the guys who have our MX600's. I make no comment on their performance. I let the comments speak for themselves. Measuring was done with LEAP and LMS.
And theres me thinking it was only meTongue
I find that if the phase bung is too long it will affect the dispersion, and a sharp point on the end will give it super pin-point accuracy (like an 'axe' through your head) 

Edited by mykey - 31 August 2007 at 5:28am
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LostGrayCat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LostGrayCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2007 at 6:24am
Does the material mass have an effect on the sound?  Have you tried other styles of gluing up the wood before shaping?
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mykey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2007 at 6:42am
Yes ! they need to be solid, our first ever phase bungs were made of solid mahoganyShocked
 
There are some chinese companys that do a hollow P/B, chaps with the boke mids? can you check if the P/B's are hollow?
 
I'm guessing they are a 2 part expanding foam P/B?
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_djk_ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2007 at 8:25am
EAW made a lot of phase plugs for their 12" horns out of foam, so did Peavey.  The EAW plug is painted with something hard, the Peavey is just spray painted.
 
Community Light and Sound uses a foam phase plug inside their M4 horn driver, it's painted with something as hard as glass.
djk
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