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Hd15 - my versioin |
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Teunos 
Old Croc 
Joined: 23 November 2008 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1799 |
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 Posted: 30 July 2013 at 10:46am |
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Oops, i f**** up
 . I edited my post, i had 23.4cm before for the last section, which should be 32.4 sorry, my bad.
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Best regards,
Teun. |
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levyte357-
Old Croc
Joined: 27 July 2012 Location: UK, South East Status: Offline Points: 8128 |
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Posted: 30 July 2013 at 1:47pm |
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+1 Fantastic work Teunos, you've given the project life again..   |
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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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levyte357-
Old Croc
Joined: 27 July 2012 Location: UK, South East Status: Offline Points: 8128 |
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Posted: 30 July 2013 at 5:31pm |
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 Edited by levyte357- - 30 July 2013 at 8:07pm |
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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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Teunos
Old Croc
Joined: 23 November 2008 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1799 |
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Posted: 30 July 2013 at 8:11pm |
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So primarily, what is the design goal as far as FR goes? are we aiming for 60Hz, which is never really gonna work properly in an HD15~ish size and 15'' driver, or are we going for maximum flat G.D. from 80Hz upward? Kicky Punchy sound is no problem but usually brings up group delay very high if required to go down low, which sacrifices sound quality. So a specific list of design goald may aid improvement of the design
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Best regards,
Teun. |
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levyte357-
Old Croc
Joined: 27 July 2012 Location: UK, South East Status: Offline Points: 8128 |
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Posted: 30 July 2013 at 8:54pm |
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TBH, Have simmed approx 10x-15x drivers in past couple of hours, a number of units give very acceptable response downto 65hz. Seems almost all of the PD high BL favourites drivers produce peaky sim, where as others like "some" Fane/B&C drivers, with "warm" BL/Qes/Vas, are naturally smoother. May possibly be worthwhile, for someone to knock this cab together, & taking few RTA measurements with number of drivers. |
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pfly
Old Croc
Joined: 25 October 2007 Location: Helsinki, Fin Status: Offline Points: 2828 |
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Posted: 30 July 2013 at 9:17pm |
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How are you simulating these sort of boxes then? What sort of data are you using?
For several times I've found HR to be surprisingly accurate when I've had the opportunity to measure designs in real world 2pi with RTA. This happens when I've used input data like I (and Teunos as he uses similar approach) do. For example HR data provided by Rog for most of his designs is quite inaccurate / vague. edit: should read posts completely. You seem to use Teunos'es data.  Edited by pfly - 30 July 2013 at 9:18pm |
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bee
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Joined: 14 June 2011 Location: Middlesex Status: Offline Points: 4553 |
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Posted: 30 July 2013 at 10:53pm |
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input date looks spot on. I would play with the design a bit more, and get this box to play lower, and try to smooth out the dip in the response, and lower the peak at 250hz, there is a lot of wasted energy in hitting 250hz as its virtually impossible with out a phase bung type of device to get a bhp cab to play that high with out sounding honky....
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https://www.elements-audio.com
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levyte357-
Old Croc
Joined: 27 July 2012 Location: UK, South East Status: Offline Points: 8128 |
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Posted: 31 July 2013 at 12:31am |
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Response wholly depends on the driver you sim, pay close attention to driver BL, qes, qts, Vas.  Clue for Bee:High BL drivers tend to be Peaky, mid BL drivers with slightly larger Qes/Vas tend towards flatter response. Maybe that's why I'm happy with design as is, as I've found 2x optimum drivers. Edited by levyte357- - 31 July 2013 at 12:41am |
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Teunos
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Joined: 23 November 2008 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1799 |
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Posted: 31 July 2013 at 8:50am |
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Which drivers may that be? perhaps the design can be fine tuned around these drivers to remove last rinkles etc.
Have gotten best results with drivers that have specs around vas~200 qms~10 fs in mid thirties Eighteensound 15lw1500 seems perfect for the job. driver specs like this automatically suggest lowish BL, which also truly is the case, which means cone control will be lower and driver excursion higher for input signal. So if driver with above spec is chosen, it must have proper (true (Hvc-Hg)/2) Xmax of around 6-7mm. Not that hard but just a thing to keep in mind. Also, have gotten even better results with 90% of simmed drivers by slightly decreasing rear chamber volume. This can be done by angling the baffle slightly less steep, around 27 degrees and increasing the angle of the first horn panel thus increasing S3 and the overall efficiency without completely retuning cab Have taken a quick look at displacement of driver and HPF settings. This is directly dictated by the length of the horn and not necessarily the chamber volumes. Unfortunately filter wizard is not available when simming horns, but Lower cutoff seems to be at a max Low point of around 75Hz. @Bee, the 250Hz peak will always be there because the mouth area of a single unit is unsufficiently large. When 2 or 4 units are coupled things become much better. Also the use of a driver with above like specs helps. Remember however, simming single kicks should be done in 4 pi.s.r. I never use single BPH kick, waste of space. It's only interesting when 2 or more units are used. For smaller gigs i use single sub with 15'' BR as kick, works much better and allows for smaller tops. Bigger gigs are either 2 subs and 2 kick and suiting tops (per side), or 4 of each per side, which is plain violent
Edited by Teunos - 31 July 2013 at 9:19am |
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Best regards,
Teun. |
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all bass
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Joined: 11 October 2012 Location: the Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1855 |
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Posted: 31 July 2013 at 8:51am |
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Would you care to share these findings with the world Levy... Edited by all bass - 31 July 2013 at 8:52am |
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bee
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Joined: 14 June 2011 Location: Middlesex Status: Offline Points: 4553 |
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Posted: 31 July 2013 at 10:03am |
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teunos spot on m8t, could not agree more with you. not sure why one would need to spend hours trying to find the right driver, stick with your driver of choice and change box to suit driver. Driver I was looking at was the one you wanted in orig post...
This box can be made to sound a lot better. a small adjustment to rear chamber as pointed out plus a small adjustment to front chamber and a bit of length on the horn.... Lev the peak you talk about in some situations is not a bad thing, one with small eq it can be smoothed out, also for some types of music a small peak helps in getting the desired sound....
Edited by bee - 31 July 2013 at 10:05am |
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https://www.elements-audio.com
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levyte357-
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Joined: 27 July 2012 Location: UK, South East Status: Offline Points: 8128 |
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Posted: 31 July 2013 at 2:09pm |
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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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all bass wrote: