Design of 2x18 Front Loaded Horn |
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levyte357
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 10 May 2004 Location: UK, London Status: Offline Points: 11743 |
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Posted: 29 October 2007 at 6:38pm |
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Wondering if anyone has researched this? I'm favouring an approach that allows top loading of drivers i.e WSX style, to allow easy driver access and effective use of Alu heatsink plate.
Edited by levyte357 - 30 October 2007 at 2:43pm |
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TONY.A.S.S.
Old Croc Joined: 21 February 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 6878 |
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Easy to do, just think very big and heavy. You can see how long Martin horns were in the day and indeed our own. My logic would be to build them with even longer horns. If the're folded, they should still be big to take advantage of the 18's. We did a double 18 that was proportionally bigger than the 2x15 BS1200. It was big and heavy and we only sold them into clubs. If you load them from the top you will cutting out a usefull cabinet wall. Draw a rectangle and then start to draw a path that leads you to the front. Don't go down the old Turbo route. (good sounding cabs though they may be) They are front loaded horns, but the shortest in the business.
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Disco Stu
Old Croc Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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Even Rog says that if you want to go low with an 18" it needs to be the size of a small car
Its a futile process if anything, must you use 18"s? There are more drawbacks than benefits in this day and age with such advanced driver technology. A 15" on a horn long enough to load to 35Hz can be acheived in a box 48"x24"x24" why would you go bigger?
No-one is using 18"s on long horns, why? Cones cant take it, people (even rog) are only using them on short horns and notice that most of Voids catalogue this year (Arcline, Waveform etc.) are using 12" horns.
Stu
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ceharden
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Interesting comments there Tony. I've been playing with lots of different foldings on paper and I actually really like the Martin WSX,215MkIII style driver access and folding. Actually seems to be the most efficient use of space and easiest to build.
I will build my 15" version of the WSX over the winter! |
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levyte357
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MSE-118 'Quake' Subwoofer
Description http://www.emacoustics.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=99999999 |
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Mike Severloh
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How bout straight horns like the ol´ Community Boxer 2x18" in trapezoidal box with and big additional reflex chamber hooked sideways where the access panel could be ? Modular,yet still stand-alone ? |
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Mike Severloh.
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levyte357
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Not being an expert, I have chosen the WSX or SL36 Horns to tamper with. I think it is just within my capabilities to arrive at a working solution based on one of these. |
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Disco Stu
Old Croc Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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Hohoho nice try levyte
Ok no plot, but 134dB continuous with 800W equates to 105dB sensitivity and looks estimated since theres no plot to back it up. Factor in power compression and that moves you down to around 131dB at best and 127dB at worst, if I remember right its a PD driver in there so lets look on the brighter side of that and say 131/2dB.
35Hz? With a mouth of around 700x540? Lets look at a horn with a mouth of around 700x576
Theres a plot for a horn of such a mouth size, admittedly the box for the 18" is larger and the horn longer but it needs to be because an 18" is not only physically bigger but requires a larger rear chamber as a result.
But 35Hz with one box is at best unlikely
Also another thing to consider 109kg! Not exactly a one man lift and probably not a 2 man lift either - the cab shown in the link is 40Kg nearly a 1/3 of the weight and around 350mm shallower which makes a whole lot of difference in some venues - 950mm is a deep cab(37") and awkward to schlep around.
EDIT: Another cab with a similar mouth size is the Looney 700x600 effective mouth size but the horn length only loads to 50Hz - the length is important for extension but without the mouth size aint gonna happen and will give bumps in the response.
Stu Edited by Disco Stu - 29 October 2007 at 9:55pm |
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levyte357
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Yes Stu, large heavy, but still very well known and effective.. Also the driver is custom PD. The whole point of my exercise is just to explore exactly what kind of SPL/response can be garnered from a 2x driver front loaded horn sub on an approximately 7.5ft horn. Edited by levyte357 - 29 October 2007 at 10:07pm |
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Disco Stu
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Fair enough definitely 18"s?
Hmm what driver did you have in mind?
I can foresee the following problems - a long horn with an 18" = a large column of air to move for the driver.
This will require the use of a driver with an amazingly strong cone and a large BL factor, and will always be prone to tearing simply because of the diameter of the thing, the distance between one "supporting section" and another is around 17"
As a result of moving the large column of air with just one single unit, the transient response will be poor - so its going to be restricted to sub, and will probably sound "slow"
Again with the tearing thing - if you look at the BFM subs they load through slots, this can help with the response to an extent BUT raises the compression ratio and puts increased stress on the driver, so I think the horn needs a smooth expansion with quite a large surface area.
Just some starting points for you!
Stu
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All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output My acts: www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches |
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Timebomb
Old Croc Joined: 11 October 2004 Location: Lancaster Status: Offline Points: 2717 |
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18s tend to have larger displacement than 12s, even the caire
12sw wich has a very large displacement for a 12 can be outdone by most
decent 18s and almost doubled by some beasts. using 12s tends to
lead the design of a long path horn to a higher compression ratio /
smaller rear chamber wich puts more pressure on the cone with a 12,
yes its harder to keep an 18" cone rigid but they dont tend to
have to travel as far and the load is spread over an area twice the
size of a 12.
The are advantages of 18s over 12s and plenty of drivers out there can take horn loading, and plenty of pro manufacturers use 18s in horns. Id favior the spiral folding style as it has no 180 degree bends but horns like the wsx would be easer to heatsink. |
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levyte357
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2x V18-1000 |
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