Kick drum mic |
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Disco Stu
Old Croc Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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A good mic can only be made good use of by a well tuned kit as HansA says and most guys dont know how to tune (or more precisely) DAMPEN their kits to get the best out of the bass drum.
If you have a good kit you should be able to get a good sound with minimal dampening, but if its anything less than about £1600 you really need to think about getting rid of those dodgy resonances with O rings, Moongel or in the case of a bass drum (a pillow placed with 20 % against the batter head)
In this case a D112 is the best option as it can make a bad drumkit sound good
But there are some mics including the D6 and EV RE20, and sometimes the Audio Technica with double elements (although I dont personally like this) that can really make a good drumkit sound fantastic.
Stu
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All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output My acts: www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches |
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el chupacabra
Young Croc Joined: 02 August 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 757 |
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my d6 does me fine - even when i havent got access to any gates i can usually get a nice sound.
Edited by el chupacabra - 03 November 2007 at 3:44pm |
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HansA
Registered User Joined: 07 March 2007 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 595 |
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With the right tuning and the right heads there will be no need for damping a kit. except for the kick. OK maybe not the kit you buy at Ringo but everyone else should be fine.
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�*�o�O�o�*�*: HansA, The FUBAR sound technician :*�*�o�O�o�*�
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boab
Registered User Joined: 21 June 2004 Location: Busby Status: Offline Points: 484 |
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That neatly moves us on to Toms, Hi Hats and Overheads.
I once had the pleasure of working with bobby fame (Talc. Charlotte Church, ), who put a tea towel over his snare. I ended up using a D12E for the kick and two condensers as overheads. Because he is a great drummer their was no need to mess around with his sound as it was well tuned and his hits were precise and well balanced. I have heard that the three mic set up works well with the earthworks mics as well http://www.earthworksaudio.com/29.html Boab Edited by boab - 03 November 2007 at 8:14pm |
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Disco Stu
Old Croc Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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@HansA - Depends on the situation. From my perspective there are two ways to tune a kit, with all lugs the same for consistent pitch that doesnt fade after the impact (my preference) or back off one lug so you get a drum with an initial high pitched attack that dies away to a lower pitch soon after (a predominantly rock players method that only works in some styles). The first method gives a lot of sustain to the drum, which no matter how you tune, cant be stopped without dampening, either through using a coated or oil filled head, or with O-rings, moongel or gaffa. I like the pure tone but with a relatively short sustain so as to minimise sympathetic resonances and to prevent requiring gating everything, so I tune this way and dampen with either moongel, externally mounted dampeners or gaffa depending on the drum.
The size of the shell also makes a difference as larger diameter heads tuned relatively slack just give more of a thud rather than a pitch (take the Bonham 26"x14" kickdrum and why the size of the drum just automatically makes a good sound), and usually requires less dampening (the downside being they have a tendancy to resonate in sympathy with other drums more easily, necessitating the use of gates which I think sound really terrible when set up incorrectly, which is 90% of the time)
With oil filled or coated heads all these serve to do is dampen different frequencies out of the drum - coated and black dotted heads on a snare help to dampen out unwanted resonance caused by a cheap shell, badly cut bearing edges or poor tuning, and pinstripes or other oil filled heads often end up emparting too much of the sound of the drumhead into the kit, rather than letting the shells sing which is most beneficial if you have a bad kit but want to make it sound better, but you dont see too many pros with good quality maple or birch kits using these heads because they have a kind of aggressive characteristic.
@Boab - the reason those earthworks mics work so well is the very small diaphragm and therefore fast settling time, to get a similar result you dont need anything more than a standard measurement mic, the Behringer ECM8000 does a sterling job on OH for the price, and there are similar priced offerings from the likes of Peavey. Granted the Earthworks have lower noise figures but are in the region of I think £2k more expensive and for a drumkit you need very little gain anyway so its questionable in all but the more expensive studios.
I have the earthworks CD which gives examples of a kit done with just the earthworks mics, and also in conjunction with close mics on toms and snare, there was no comparison, while the earthworks mics sounded great on their own, as soon as you get into the fray with other instruments and severe amounts of compression and/or distortion that are used these days, you wont have a hope in hell of getting enough punch to sit well in a studio mix - and I wouldnt want to take such a good set of quality microphones out on the road, especially since they are Omnis (they make cardioids as well but IMO they didnt sound half as good)
Stu
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All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output My acts: www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches |
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Peter Moller
Old Croc Joined: 26 December 2005 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 2531 |
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AKG D112 works every time and is great for music styles that needs a distinct punchy kick For everything else I prefer the EV RE20, but it costs 3-4 times as much :-)
/peter
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real phone no: +45 four zero six two four four nine eight ( using obvious anti phone spam encryption )
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boab
Registered User Joined: 21 June 2004 Location: Busby Status: Offline Points: 484 |
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@Disco Stu
I agree with you about avoiding gates if possible, but what in your opinion is a badly set gate on drums. I know someone who uses the earthworks in a live sitution, but he does also have a mental PA. ATC bass & mid with B&C HF, ATC amps/ x-overs for mid and top and MC21250's on the bass. Tries to keep 1 amp ch per driver and swears he can hear the difference between Klotz and VDC cable. Boab |
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Disco Stu
Old Croc Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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If his ears are that good id be worried, no live sound rig is going to be anything like good enough to hear the difference between cable types. Anyway gates, most of the problems associated with gates are due to bad setup. Ghost notes get lost and sometimes more than that. Subtlety generally goes when they are used, I still want to hear the dynamics in the drummers playing. This can be particularly bad on a bigger stage when you cant hear the direct sound of the drums through the PA, just the amplified sound.
Sidechain gates for more attack... sure but thats a lot of trouble to go to in the live situation.
Stu
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All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output My acts: www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches |
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drummerboy
Registered User Joined: 23 April 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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i have a d6. very open sound. had it since 04. the capsule has gotten loose though and i need to buy a new mic.
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drummers can run sound too!!
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Phil B
Old Croc Joined: 21 November 2004 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2328 |
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If i had more time ( read budget for bigger desk!) I`d do the two group set up for drums. One group for ungated / uncomp`ed drums and one group gated / compressed then blend the two to get the dynamics and retain the " control" ? `Y` split the inputs and then daisy chain the inserts on the gates and comps. Seen that trick on Dave Rat`s blog for RHCP and only managed a feeble double kick / snare two group set up but it works! You can just ride two faders to give a much better drum feel ....make sure you`ve got a good drummer tho ! .p. |
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Disco Stu
Old Croc Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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Yep absolutely its a studio trick that can work very well live but takes a lot of channels so only really suitable for the larger setup.
Stu
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All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output My acts: www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches |
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Mark James
Old Croc Joined: 15 January 2006 Location: rig side Status: Offline Points: 5309 |
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the need for a good drummer is a difficult one, ive even tried ebay, do behringer do decent drummers that arnt too expensive???? they are so rare lol [im joking for those of you now confused]
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me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure |
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