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Stasys 3 MK2 VS Porn Horn V2

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Disco Stu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 February 2008 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:


And if you could kindly explane what tricks I played with the Stasys X at PLASA that would be nice.


I know you rigged the walls with a massive 8th order bandpass with 52 18"ers

In all seriousness I see two schools of design afoot,

1) The old skool - which consisted of primarily getting the speaker right as much as possible so that no corrective EQ was required for a good sound - partially due to the fact that corrective EQ used to be prohibitively expensive. A lot of the old EV designs were spot on in this way, but things have moved on.

2) The newer skool - which seems to consist of partially designed/copied/badly designed cabs with hordes of corrective EQ to compensate for the lack of time and effort put in at the design stage

While I believe Rog uses EQ to perfect the system you can tell by his designs and his component choices that his systems are designed with the older skool method firmly in mind

The fact that you all commented on how loud and clear the Porn horn V2 was at that shootout just confirms this. Dont forget that all of the other mid tops at that shootout were not phase plugged so if nothing else, if there was not a significant amount of R&D in the Porn then it would have exhibited the same mid range droop which is almost impossible to correct with EQ as all the others.

Also dont forget that with every band of EQ you use it also causes phase shift in other bands. This explains the near perfect waterfall/impulse/GD/phase plots of the Porn.

Unfortunately the people who design via skool 2) appear to either not realise or do not care to notice this but its also part of the reason why (and you all commented on this) that the Porn blew away everything else at the shootout.

Stu

Edited by Disco Stu - 10 February 2008 at 1:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 February 2008 at 1:22pm
I hope this is not what your on about Rog????
 
I wasn't having a dig, i'm impressed, thats whay i said don't bother with a controller
 
why bother with a flat line like that
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adambomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 February 2008 at 3:45pm
Rog.. just found this.. you have taken this the wrong way.
 
I never said you used any tricks!!!
 
All I said was you mut have used the preset for the porn, which would have had a bit of time spent on it.. more than we spent on the other cabs atleast, which may have made the test slightly unfair.
 
Over all tho, even taking this into account the porn walked it.
 
Then I said I managed to get a better plot out of the cabs I have with more playing around (a couple of hours tweaking delays / eq etc)... still nothing special compared to the porn I might add.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 February 2008 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

And if you could kindly explane what tricks I played with the Stasys X at PLASA that would be nice.


It seems you managed to unscrew the lightbulbs without touching them, that's a pretty good trick if I ever saw one LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2008 at 4:10am
Adam, here we go again.
 
The only reason the porn horn has a better plot than the rest in the same time is that it starts off with a very flat frequency response. As you have found even if you spend 3 days trying to get a flat response from the bokes you will not.
 
This is how it works. The DIY sector or Chinese company that just looks at another design from a picture and then builds something that losely looks like it, will and can never have the control over parts that I can. I have a complete say in how the glue is made and where it is applied when designing the woofers and compression drivers. I even have control of where and from what materials the capacitors are made from in the crossovers and how the copper or alu is made for coils and inductors. I have control of the cabinet shape and a full time team of 6 men and CNC just to build prototypes. If some who has all this at there disposal can't come up with a design that has a pretty flat response then they should not be designing at all.
 
As a DIYer you are at the mercy of what ever you can find. I'm so surprised that anyone can take a compression driver from one company and mate it with a horn from somewhere else and then connect that to a premade crossover and use a woofer from another company and put it into a box that has had only 10 mins spent on its design by someone with little knowledge. Its a million to 1 chance that all those parts will combine to make anything useable, let alone have a flat response. Only when you have control of ever part of the speaker and its design can you hope to get good results. Some Chinese companys do have control over all the materials and parts that make up a speaker system, but the problems is that they don't know where or what to control to make anything worth having. Industy is too new for China and there are a people who need to be led. So finding anyone with any clue of how to design anything is remote.
 
So, if it was easy to get a flat plot in a short time for the porn horn its just down to the fact that all its parts work together and were designed to provide a good response with the mimimum of effort. I thought it took a long time to get a good plot from the porn horn and if the beyma HF driver was used I think anyone could have made a flat response in under 5 mins.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jethrocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2008 at 6:49am
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

 As a DIYer you are at the mercy of what ever you can find....... Only when you have control of ever part of the speaker and its design can you hope to get good results.


sh*t, best we all give up then....:(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2008 at 12:24am
I think the one thing Rog may miss is that he sees the industry from inside the industry, an increasing number of bands and DJs are wising up to the DIY option and for them it offers a huge potential to destroy a lot of the mass produced reflex drivers in boxes that Rog is talking about in the post above.

I think with Rog releasing the plans on the speakerplans website and people like Bill Fitzmaurice, Walt and Staiper coming up with their own offerings there is a lot of choice out there for people who want to build and an increasing number of people are doing just that.

If you want to spend a bit more but have an easier option I think the Porn sits nicely in the midband price range between a good branded product and a good DIY option and offers a lot of performance at that price.

In terms of designing it takes a huge amount of effort to achieve sonic perfection but with more and more people listening to mp3s and wma quality files which are ultra compressed, IMO people have lost a love for listening to music, its just there in their lives, they dont care about the intricate details of it anymore its just noise for a modern world.

I am the complete opposite to this if I listen to digital its gotta be the highest quality you can find, and id rather listen to analogue where possible. I do wonder though, how much the population is able to discern music from sound, and talent from crap.

I blame simon cowell, under 1% of the population have the "X factor" in any field and it doesnt appear to be any of those that receive the airtime, mostly because they are tired and bitter of the whole industry... sound familiar?

Stu
All you need to know is:
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My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aperrado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2008 at 8:59pm
give up??      never
Im hard to learn but still asking
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tweeter box Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2008 at 7:06pm
Anybody got a pic of the mk1 porn horn with the metal plug???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adambomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2008 at 8:31pm
did it have a metal plug? Didn't know that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norty303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2008 at 10:17pm
Don't think it did, check dom's pics in 'Show off...', they're MK1's and they're abs/plastic afaik
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adambomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2008 at 10:34pm
I just read thru Rog's comments again (above). (you there Rog?)...
 
Anyways... maybe I did put that a bit badly... I do apologise by the way.
 
What I ment was... the freq plot of ANY multi driver setup WILL change over distance.. be it porn, stasys, turbo, FK1.. MA912.. whatever... the different componants of the system WILL have differences in dispertion... hence the plot WILL change... (maybe danleys unity might be an exeption to this).
 
If I were to design a mid top.. I would probably design it with a goal of having as flat a response as possible (with no EQ)... to do this I would have to choose a distance at which to measure the response.. and seeing as everyone uses 1w / 1m.. I would probably use the same (maybe I shouldn't have called this a marketing trickEmbarrassed).
 
However.. all I was saying was.. for high power - horn loaded mid tops.. this isn't really the best distance to design for.. or measure from... it should be far further.. closer to the actual crowd distance when in use (lets discount moshers in Norfolk at 1mm listening distance).
 
I know for a single cab you can plot at a high power and at greater distance, then work out the 1w /1m.. BUT with multiple sources.. does it still plot the same at 10m s it does at 1m (I say no).
 
That's the point I was trying to make.
 
I was not in any way critisizing the porn... it's the best DIY mid available in my view... just sadly out of my budget :(
 
I also have to say I think shootouts are very valuable, a learning experience for everyone involved and for the readers of the results.. and jolly good fun.


Edited by adambomb - 27 March 2008 at 10:44pm
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