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Dj Maca Roots View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dj Maca Roots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2008 at 4:54pm
The Omega Pro 18 works well for my projects.
I can get them cheep as replacements for $130 each so its easy to  buy them for DIY projects.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djfaceatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2008 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by Dj Maca Roots Dj Maca Roots wrote:

The Omega Pro 18 works well for my projects.
I can get them cheep as replacements for $130 each so its easy to  buy them for DIY projects.
 
 
Hey any chance you might be able to tell me where to get the omega pro for that price?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rich_gale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2008 at 11:49am
buy a kilomax and you will understand why so many people dislike eminence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jahmani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2008 at 2:46pm
Alright, thanks for tips. Though, the Omega Pro 18 is as expensive as the reference speaker PD.186 so between Omega and PD 186 i'd go for PD.  According to ISD i could also manage with Sigmas with slight modifications to the cab which means i will go for the sigmas in this project. Plan is to finish two g subs this summer, i will let you know if they are any good after testing them


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Dj Maca Roots View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dj Maca Roots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2008 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by rich_gale rich_gale wrote:

buy a kilomax and you will understand why so many people dislike eminence.

I never used the Kilomax, but for the price there must be some thing better than that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2008 at 5:42pm
the kilomax is a strange driver, dont touch it unless you know what you are doing, allegedly realy good in certain situations, like a huge ported enclosure for home theatre tuned real low, but not something many people are after?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 3:45am
Once you have a sizable cabinet, you won’t have any issues with the Killomax 18. It’s those that try to put it in a cabinet 6 cubic feet and under are in for a disappointment. Matters will be even worse for those who try to put it in a horn.

Just looking at the TS Parameters you can see this woofer is more suited for frequencies ranging from 50 Hertz down and, is very inefficient from 60 Hertz on up.
I simulated two in my double eighteen cabinet and easily got -3 dB @ 32.31 Hertz (Normalized Gain) without any re-tuning involved. But, as I stated many times before, small lightweight bass cabinets are not my cup of tea.

Best Regards,





Edited by Elliot Thompson - 17 May 2008 at 3:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rengade Project Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 12:21pm
The Magnums by Eminence have served me well but they have been discontinued and replaced  by the Definimax. These have been solid performers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 12:44pm
"Hey any chance you might be able to tell me where to get the omega pro for that price?"
 
In the USA the best place to buy Eminence is Martinsoundpro.com, get a sales tax permit for your sound business and buy at dealer price (only $500 opening order, $50 re-order).
 
The Sigma is a better driver, and costs less.
 
I can hear somebody whining "but it only has a 3" coil"
 
So what? It has more x-max than the Omega (so it will play louder), and you can hit x-max before you exceed the power rating of the 3" coil (so tell me again why you think you want a 4" coil).
 
One Kilomax 18 in a tapped horn/hog scoop:
 
 
Two Kilomax 18 in 12 cu ft vented box:
 
 
Note that the one in the horn has 2dB more output at 40hz than the two vented, and is drawing half the power (8R vs 4R). With this vented box tuning I suggest limiting power to 800W per driver so as not to exceed x-max.
 
(These were 10 minute designs, more time could probably yield better ones)
 


Edited by _djk_ - 17 May 2008 at 12:48pm
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2008 at 2:46pm
 


There's no need to try to make a Killomax work in a horn when it's not designed to do so. Even Eminence doesn't recomend a putting that driver in a Horn. Why would anyone who is familiar with horn designs choose a woofer that offers a QTS of 0.56 in an 18 inch driver? Much less an EBP of 57. The driver is not efficient which is why, the no. is 1.433%

Quote Eminence
As a general guideline, Qts of 0.4 or below indicates a transducer well suited to a vented enclosure. Qts between 0.4 and 0.7 indicates suitability for a sealed enclosure. Qts of 0.7 or above indicates suitability for free-air or infinite baffle applications. However, there are exceptions! The Eminence Kilomax 18 has a Qts of 0.56. This suggests a sealed enclosure, but in reality it works extremely well in a ported enclosure. Please consider all the parameters when selecting loudspeakers. If you are in any doubt, contact your Eminence representative for technical assistance.


In reference to the Double 18,

What you are looking at is an increase in cabinet gain because the box is too small. So, the end result is having the box ring at certain frequencies. If you look at Normalized gain, you'll see a huge increase at certain frequencies. Once you exceed the 0 dB mark is an indication of choosing too small of a box for your design.

If you really want to see how well it performs, pit it against another driver with a higher no.%, feed each woofer the same wattage and, you'll see the Killomax does not offer the same SPL as the driver with the higher no.%

Forget about customized amplitude. Use Maximum Acoustic. Go into the drivers Parameters
and adjust the wattage so both woofers are the same. You'll shortly find out that you'll need feed that Killomax a lot of power in order for it to match up to the output of the driver with the higher no%.

Best Regards,


Elliot Thompson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2008 at 3:13am

The old  EBP numbers don't mean squat for modern drivers and applications. It was a guidline developed when the blind were leading the blind.

The Lab 12 is a good example. It was designed by Tom Danley for the Lab 12 horn, and it only has an efficiency of 89.2dB (No=0.333%) and an  EBP of 56hz.I am not recommending the KM18 for a vented box, the point was to illustrate how poor they were vs the tapped horn (which is a misnomer as they are not a real horn untill two octaves above Fc). The sole purpose in presenting the AkAbak script and plot is to show anyone that is stuck with a KM18 that they have a good alternative to a vented box. I would never buy one in the first place.

"If you really want to see how well it performs, pit it against another driver with a higher no.%, feed each woofer the same wattage and, you'll see the Killomax does not offer the same SPL as the driver with the higher no.%"
 
OK, I loaded the PD 184 in BB v6.0 to see what it would do. With both driver tuned near the same frequency the Eminence has over 2dB more output due to it's greater x-max. Around 55hz (the frequency of peak output in dance music) the Eminence has 2.7dB more output with the same power in. At frequencies above 100hz the PD starts winning the output race.
 
This JBL graph begins to explain why:
 
 
As we can plainly see, the higher the efficiency, the higher the output above the EBP, but not below there. The 2225 will play 6dB louder below 100hz than the 4dB more efficient 2220 due to x-max, and the dB/2.83V is the same below 100hz. The even less efficient 2235 has another 6dB more output below 50hz due to x-max, even though it is about 1-1/2dB lower in sensitivity at 50hz (2235 not well suited for horn use).


Edited by _djk_ - 18 May 2008 at 3:19am
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2008 at 6:14am
There is no need to bring the Lab 12 driver in this discussion considering that driver was customed designed for the Lab Subwoofer. 

We are talking 18 inch drivers here.

If you want to believe that EBP "don't mean squat" the same thing applies to using 1 watt/1 meter measurements. For we all know how easily those numbers can increase housing a speaker in very small box and have the numbers escalated.

You could've used a American brand speaker instead of using a UK brand. Out of the whole line of Precision Devices you chose the PD 184?

I'll pit two US brands against each other. 

Peavey Lo Rider 18 -vs- Eminence Killomax 18

Two drivers sitting in a 12 cubic foot box tuned to 40 Hertz

Peavey: -3 dB @ 41.29

Eminence: -3 dB @ 36.23

Maximum Acoustic Power

Peavey: 132 dB from 100 - 37.3 Hertz

Eminence: 130 dB from 100 - 36.7 Hertz

Cone Displacement

Peavey stays below it's xmax rating (9.8 mm) from 100 - 37.3 Hertz getting 2000 watts (1000 per driver)

Eminence exceeds it's xmax rating (9.8 mm) at 58.7 Hertz getting 2000 watts (1000 watts
per driver) from 100 - 36.7 Hertz.

no.%

Peavey 5.281%  (Both Drivers)

Eminence 2.866% (Both Drivers)

And if I use Faital Pro's (European Brand) 18, it follows the same response as the Peavey but, gives me 133 dB with an no. of 6.309%  Clap

With that being said the cabinet used is small in my point of view. This is why, I wouldn't even consider tuning them lower than 40 Hertz. I own Double 15's that sit in 10 cubic foot boxes. And would sooner put fifteens in a 12 cubic foot box than eighteens.

Best Regards,







  




Edited by Elliot Thompson - 18 May 2008 at 6:29am
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