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Jah Tubby preamp mods continued

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mskeete View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mskeete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2008 at 8:18am
mykey, not every preamp is the same
On paper, my preamps can play flat (except one model). One day I actually bothered to measure one. Been looking for the graph all week but can't find it
 
There was a slight hump because I had the bass finishing at 160Hz and the mids starting at 130Hz. It was my own one that I use to experiment on so I left it as it was
 
Now, I'm not suggesting for a second that I would play a session with a completely flat response (I wouldn't) but I have more of a choice and I can play a wide range of music (not just reggae) and be happy with the sound
 
Not bashing JTS or anyone else. Just saying that not all pre's are the same
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Masai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2008 at 9:05am
Originally posted by mykey mykey wrote:

the chicken or the egg?
 
when I was A yut dem, sound systems were very bad, cabinets were made from chipboard and the rattling was super annoying, you could NOT enjoy the tunes
 
Now you can't tell me that all the people at those dances liked that, they would have wanted EFFORTLESS warm bass coming at them, with HIFI tops
 
Now! at a very young age (14) I started out to try and help with this problem of cabs rattling, I started to build cabs that were strong. IMPROVEMENT
 
also lets look at piezo's, were they there because they were nice and cheap, or was it the sound of them?
 
then all of a sudden, people started using JBL & celestion bullets. IMPROVEMENT 
 
I saw back in the day , everyone upgrade to ASS kit. IMPROVEMENT
 
now, if you read through what has been said, you are saying that it's an authentic sound you want to keep?
 
so why don't we go back to the begining?  amplifiers in biscuit tins, chipboard scoops, and piezos?
 
why go and spend BMW money on a sound system then put a pre on it? 
 
if you want this, i vcan build some scoop with the rear baffle machined out to 21mm and use a 18mm rear baffle board with no glue, this will sound very authentic, but NO IMPROVEMENT
 
can I have a FLAT response PRE please to put on a BMW costing sound system please?
 
Another thing, all my matesDads back in the day had PROPER amplifiers and beautiful HIFI and pre-amps on some lovely Tannoys, so they could listen to their lovely reggae
 
not a piezo in sight, only lots of lace doilies on sofas



You done know, king!!!ClapClapClapClapLOL
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Masai View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Masai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2008 at 9:08am
Originally posted by mskeete mskeete wrote:

Originally posted by Masai Masai wrote:


By the way, I used to post under the name of Othello.
 
had a feeling it was you but wasn't 100% sure
Looking forward to your comments (I hope)


Yes, me ol' mucker!!! As theyuse to say in Highlander 'There can be only one'Wink

Must link up, soon.

Got to run. As the yoots would say - I'm on the grind. No laughing at the back, please!!!LOL

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Dub Defector View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dub Defector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2008 at 9:50am
All seems a bit odd to me, just saying that because something has been done the way it has for x-number of years does not mean it can't be improved. Even in reggae sound system business things have progressed over the years.. every part of the system has been upgraded from speakerbox to drivers to amps. Dubplates a run from Acitate to DAT to CD over the years.. (remember nuff heated debate about that one!) but things move on. So what gwaan with Preamp? We have to stick with Tubbys coz its been run fine for 30 years? Things move on.. and for the better IMO.

I'm not bashing Keith, we run one of his preamps (just had it serviced Wink) and things never sounded so good on our system... no complaints from me on that front. But say it cant be improved? and that the pre is 'the' character of a sound system? Why don't we go back to quad speakers built from wardrobes with 150 watt drivers? Now that is authentic!


Edited by Dub Defector - 24 November 2008 at 9:54am
Rough Every Time... http://www.dubselector.co.uk
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mykey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2008 at 4:44am
A mechanic or a carpenter will always have is favourite tool
 
that tool will be the best in the tool box
 
the Pre is a sound mans favourite tool.........but is it the best?
 
lets make it a proper tool!!
 
then I'll buy oneShocked 


Edited by mykey - 25 November 2008 at 4:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2008 at 4:45am
yes, done now MasaiEmbarrassed
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mskeete View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mskeete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2008 at 7:34am
Originally posted by mykey mykey wrote:

A mechanic or a carpenter will always have is favourite tool
 
that tool will be the best in the tool box
 
the Pre is a sound mans favourite tool.........but is it the best?
 
lets make it a proper tool!!
 
then I'll buy oneShocked 
 
and what's your spec of a 'proper' pre
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mykey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2008 at 10:14am
Thats something you should be asking everyone
 
if you haven't already got your foot on ladder, maybe here's your chance
 
East London styleeWink
 
be quick before the Swiss get in there, we don't want them building Pre's as good as their time pieces 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Masai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2008 at 9:34pm
I've just realised........

Nuff amp builders come from the endz (East London)!

Baracuda, Tubbys, Elvins, Mostech........

Anybody else?

You're right about the Swiss! Don't forget the Swedes, too! I know dem can build some good speaker boxes!

It does amazes me, how the features of the pre haven't changed in nearly 30 years. From when Bara came on the scene with his pre, JTS refined it, and there hasn't been much change since.

Same input channel featues, 10 band graphic eq (why?), parametric eq (yeah, right!), and how can I forget, the must have feature of all pre's - kill/ cut-out switches! With matching red, yellow, green, matching LED's and knobs. Yes, iya!LOL

Can anyone tell me when you last hear someone use their pre, to create a sonic delight?

The creativity it seems, has diminished. I think a lot of the music that the sounds play, also reflect this. Too be honest, if you have a pre with a flat response, and you're playing mainly UK style roots, it's gonna sound pretty lifeless. You see my brederns and sistrens, we are caught it viscous cycle. Sound system produces a certain sound, producers then try to replicate this sound on their productions, sounds play the tune, next producer trys to replicate this sound, etc.... Pure sub bass, stinging tops, not much in the middle. I'm sure if you looked at the graphic settings of most man's set ups, you will see the smiley face configuration. You put the mids up so that you can here the vocals, melody, chords, man start fi bawl!!!LOLConfusedCry

That's not to say that there are some good tunes being produced, but maybe it's a case that they are not being played because they are too 'musical'Confused or 'not hard enough'ConfusedConfused

I just wanna hear good tune, pon a good set. I wanna hear n feel the bass, but I want to hear the WORDS, the instruments, EVERYTING!!! I don't expect it to sound like a hi-fi, but if it did, is that such a bad ting? I don't my ears bleeding.

Audio electronics has been my profession for over 20 years. As soon as I mention Reggae, they (work colleagues) start to try and take the pee. It's only when the try n test me, they know that I'm not 'a typical Reggae man'. I remember one time when a ex colleague started to talk about about drum machines - Roland ones. When I started to correct him (which came first - 808 or 909, what was the difference between the two, etc.), he turned around to me and said 'You know your stuff - don't you? I don't want you to be offended by what I'm going to say (I thought 'here we go!'), but I've never come across a Black man like you' He started to comment about my knowledge, skills and workmanship, and how their isn't that many (Black men) in my field. In fact, we counted them, on one hand! I'm only talking about bredrens in technical positions (engineeers who can diagnois and repair to component level), in the music technology field and pro recording/ studio field. Not to say this hasn't changed, in the last few years.....

When they had a leading Reggae studio call up (they were a client), they use to roll up! You know what? I couldn't defend dem!!!

As a Nubian, I've had to deal with this ism n scism, as well as the other stuff. It's like someone who has studied to be a doctor, but also knows about alternative medicine that what used in his village by his elders....

Humble Tafari started a thread/ topic, several weeks back, where he stated that nuff of the UK sounds and sound men, are not doing enough in their communities (as well as some other stuff that he outlined). I agree with him. He made some good, and valid points

That's why I'm on a mission to educate the young people, with the knowledge and experience, that I have been Blessed to have gained, throughout the years. If one out of a hundred picks it up, it would be worthwhile. I'm going to do my best to help my Nubian young people. I won't and haven't excludeed others, but they are the ones, at the bottom of the pile right now. I'm working on a lot of guitar ampliiers lately, and there is a yoot who has shown some interest in electronics - the others don't give a toss! He will pop his head in my workshop and look over my shoulder and ask what's wrong with it, etc. I just tell/ show him, and sometimes show how bad some of this amps are badly put together (don't get me started on Mesa's!). He is of Anglo French descent.

Soooooo! Let's just keep tings on a positive heights! Yes, we should be critical of tings (bits of equipment in this case), and improve on tings, but let us not pick on something that has been a successful product for many years - just because you don't like it.
Better we just try to educate ones on how one feels sound systems should sound like, but remember that it's all subjective - he saysWink

If you was to look inside a Marshall amplifier, you would be shocked!

By the way, just look at the frenzy about the Bara on Ebay '£370'???Confused  'If I had the money I would pay a lot more for it'!!!ConfusedConfused

Now I wonder what ones would say, if they opened up that pre, to have a peek???Wink

Spectrum analyser at the ready, sah!!!

Me mother just ring to say she have some fish fi I n I, so me gawn!!!Tongue

By the way, this is not me novel. It was only meant to be a short reply! Just got carried away, while I was doing some other workEmbarrassed

Keep the positive vibes (and jokes) flowing, and keep the Fire burning!

Give Thanks and Praises!!!



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Sheggy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sheggy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2008 at 10:24pm
Got me reminiscing Masai!

I was born and grew up in the East End (E2). I used to read Echoes, dream about having a roots sound, shop at Elvins, M&D, and even bought my first bits of gear from Elvins and Hi-Tec on Dalston Lane. I'd always go window shopping and then go Ridley Rd.

Most of all I wanted a Barracuda pre ('member the adverts in the back of Black Echoes?)!

I learned everything I know about music from black music, I learned most of what I know about sound from reggae sound system. I learned most of what I know of audio electronics from a black jamaican teacher and many of my heroes are self taught electronics technicians - I mean lets not forget King Tubby!

I fully support what Joseph is doing and I can't see his work as a criticism of Barracuda or JTS but nor can I argue with the sounds that I loved to rave to in the dances of the eighties and nineties (all Barracuda and JTS). 

But remember, when certain Jamaican producers wanted the edge on the competition they went outside: the Hoo Kims got API from Miami and the sound was fantastic. 

Now if I was a sound operator, I would comission an API pre based on a Barracuda system. 

Then I'd go Ridley for sumpin' fe nyam.

S

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dub Defector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2008 at 10:47pm
Truth truth about the music.. this happened in the 90's as well.. nuff sub standard digital uk roots dub coming out at that time. Things went bad and the roots market died a death in the late 90's IMO.

Originally posted by Masai Masai wrote:


By the way, just look at the frenzy about the Bara on Ebay '£370'???Confused  'If I had the money I would pay a lot more for it'!!!ConfusedConfused

Fe sure i would (maybe not 'a lot' more but still).. secondhand JTS pre is gonna be £300/350, so Bara is less common and comes with history Wink so worth at the very least what it went for IMO
Rough Every Time... http://www.dubselector.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Masai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2008 at 11:58pm
Yes Sheggy!

A true born cockney!

So you must remember when Hytek was Park West, and Johnson & Jones, then?!

Yeah, I remember the ad. It look as long as the QE2! And yes - I wanted to get my hands on one, tooWink

Do you remember the ads by Cass Electronics? He use to say he was ex army, in his ads...

Good for you! Not sure if King Tubby was self taught, but I take your point. Can't forget man like Mad Professor, who was not self taught. He built his own mixing desk, and made a few hits with it tooWink I know he has upgrade that desk, to one of the most highest ranking brands in the land.....

I'm also self taught, but I also went to college (Hackney being the first. Keltan House on Well St.) and Uni (London Guildhall it was called, back in the day), and have no regrets.
Like I said, as a Nubian growing up in dem times, I couldn't get companies that i have worked for, by saying 'I know how to make a pre amp' but not having a clue of how it worked.
As my parents and elders said dem times (some of you would have had it said to you too) 'you will have to be at least twice as good as the white man, who is going for the same job'. Someitmes, it still wasn't enough.....

I found the myself on the otherside of the fence, when I had to interview a bredren who had come to apply for the post of an audio engineer. I was the head of the audio department at that time. We had contracts with hi-fi shops in Tottenham Court Rd, East End, and manufacturers (Sony, Phililps, B & O, Fisher, Sanyo, are a few I remember)

The first thing he said was that he can build pre amps. I said ok, but let me show you this - I pulled out a schematic of a typical amplifier. I asked him if the amplifier was dead - no power - where would start to look. After a long pause, he pointed to the output stage, the pre amp stage, and other places, but got it wrong all the time. I showed him the area, and gave him a few tips. He said him don't know about dem tings, but he can build pre! He pulled some schematics he had drawn and said 'you get a wicked b-line when you dis ting here, and if you change dat one der.... I said 'what is the component you want to change doing? How do you calculate it's value? He couldn't answer...

Did he get the job? Stay tuned for the next episode.....

I don't profess to know everyting about audio electronics, but I'm glad and Give Thanks for the knowledge inna my head, thus far. I'm always ready to learn, and am doing so with valves/ tubesSmile I've got ideas with dem, babies! Soon come a road - The Father willing.....

Yes' I know that the Hoo Kims wanted the best at the time - API. I think Joe Gibbs had one as well...

I may be working on some API stuff. I will keep you postedWink

Don't get it twisted. I'm not saying that Joseph or anyone else, shouldn't go ahead and improve a pre or whatever, but most people improve on something, because they like the essence of that what they are improving. A man pimps up a car but he likes the shape, a man chages the caps in his Marshall amp but he still loves the original sound, you like a certain recipe but you add a take away an ingredient, a man improves a pre because he likes the sound already, but thinks he can get to 'sound' even 'better'....

Like I told Joseph before, I would rather he build a pre from scratch, as I think he would produce a good unit.

API and Bara?!?!?ConfusedConfusedLOLLOL

I'm not saying nuttin'!!!

Except that you should go an fill you belly down Ridley first, before you die of hunger bruv!!!LOLLOL

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