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Jah Tubby preamp mods continued

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russ d View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russ d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2008 at 10:57am
Originally posted by Calculus Calculus wrote:

you should really speak to the makers of these pre's about the mods you're making and maybe get them to make a upgraded version with your input... however that would mean they'd have to be humble enough not to take it as a insult to thier work. But if everyone reads this they may not have a choice.


they always have a choice !... the mods dont do anything without the pre in the first place, any new / upcoming soundman will still have to buy into having a pre, or going a different route (which is another discussion in itself), at the moment you`ve little choice but JTS or Mostec as the most easily available of pre-amp suppliers, so they will still sell, or sounds will do without pre-amps, those are the choices !....

it will be the buyers choice wether he wants his new pre modded or not (btw, such mods will void any garauntee by the pre builder), for those with old pre`s, well there`s nothing wrong with going to joseph for his mods, or if he sells kits for diy-ers, this sort of thing is maybe part and parcel of your sound system career, upgrading and such... the same happens with many a higher end studio gear, with people upgrading valves, opamps and other components, its nothing to do with the original manufacturer, who will continue making thier equipment as is.

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mskeete View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mskeete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2008 at 11:05am
Originally posted by Calculus Calculus wrote:

you should really speak to the makers of these pre's about the mods you're making and maybe get them to make a upgraded version with your input... however that would mean they'd have to be humble enough not to take it as a insult to thier work. But if everyone reads this they may not have a choice.
 
Well, I like to think of myself as a humble person (sometimes too humble).  I can (and do) talk hours with other builders. Jo's main complaint about my work seems to be some soldering and some pots. I will comment on that but not yet
 
The thing with some "upgrades" is you can quickly reach a point of diminishing returns
How many people can go a session (not home listening) and hear the difference between a phono stage built around 1 opamp or 2 opamps, serires feedback or shunt feedback
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Simeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2008 at 11:54am
.... well i certainly can.....
 
And i refuse that my music be played through anything but 2 opamps with series feedback.... and people must have red, gold and green silk ear plugs, otherwise it just wouldn't have the same effect.... ConfusedLOL
 
It's a great excersize all this... but thats all it is. In amongst the science it's a Daily Mail style thread, un-covering the 'Truth' about 'so called' pre amp builders in London, watch out guys, i think i saw Roger Cook at the last session, snooping about.... he'll be bursting in on you Mskeete to ask some uncomfortable questions!!LOLLOL   
https://www.facebook.com/KingSimeonSound?ref=stream     
https://soundcloud.com/king-simeon
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Rootsdriver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rootsdriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2008 at 12:28pm
Hahaha,
I could feel the ice geting thinner on this one. I assume that most preamp experience is with the UK soundmen as they`ve been handling them for ages. They learned how to make them work best. The rest of us is just trying to catch up. 

Over here, besides from a handfull of people who started earlier, we are just starting to look into things. Trying to understand how things work. The preamp is kind of a black box with a good portion of mystery around it. Everyone knows what filters are being used etc. but that`s just theory. If you want to know what a black box is doing, put something in and see what comes out. Looking at the output you can maybe tell what it is doing but not how it`s done. Joseph took it one step further and I don`t see anything wrong with that. I personally don`t have the chance to run such test....as the preamp availability is not as good as mentioned by Russ, hahaha.....but I`d love to run the same test. Just to have a go.

All this is just part of the learning process. Could these results end in a more precise preamp? Maybe. Will this make a good sound session? Definitely not! 

I guess the issue with upgrading is because this whole thing is soo tiny. A Russ mentioned there are only very few building preamps so there is no real competition. As a customer you can either take it or leave it. 
If other "markets" were working in the same way, we would all still be driving a VW Beetle and our mobile phones would still have the size of a brick.

Just take it as a technical test result. Of course the pre builders can ignore it but what`s the benefit? The results might even be wrong or limited only that one tested unit. There might even be a reason to have it that way.

P.S: My biggest prob with a pre is - actually getting one. ;-)

Wishing you all a healthy and humble start into 2009. I`ll be running a private session tomorrow playing all night, trying to make it joyfull for everyone even without a preamp. It`s all about the music, isn`t it?

Chris

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tweeter box Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2008 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by King Simeon King Simeon wrote:

.... well i certainly can.....
 
And i refuse that my music be played through anything but 2 opamps with series feedback.... and people must have red, gold and green silk ear plugs, otherwise it just wouldn't have the same effect.... ConfusedLOL
 
It's a great excersize all this... but thats all it is. In amongst the science it's a Daily Mail style thread, un-covering the 'Truth' about 'so called' pre amp builders in London, watch out guys, i think i saw Roger Cook at the last session, snooping about.... he'll be bursting in on you Mskeete to ask some uncomfortable questions!!LOLLOL   
 
LOLLOLLOL
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DC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2008 at 4:18pm
 
To build a really good sounding preamp, Try this for EQ buildingblock. More of those schematics around on the net.
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bitzo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bitzo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2008 at 5:17pm
sorry but.... this only an equalizer with kill switch, I mean it don't have 3 output (bass, mid, high)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joseph Redhemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2008 at 5:51pm
Mostec on the test bench

Before I publish the audio test ands plots here are some picture from the inside.

Here on the top left of the board is a wire that seems to be soldered but its not if you pull the wire it comes out. On the picture the colors are not true but the wire is still copper color.
One of the first technique you learn when you study electronics is to put solder on the wire before soldering it to anything else. This for two reason - first to avoid oxidation of the copper wich causes false contact and second to ensure solder makes full contact with the wire thus ensuring as less possible solder resistance.
The wire is also not isolated. You can see the shielding coming out between the white and gray part of the wire. If this touches some supply voltage or opamps output...Confused


On this one you see the xover outputs with blocking caps.
So whats wrong? In absolute nothing but as electronician I just can't believe that is the current production. It looks and is constructed like a prototype.
First why can't this cap be on your proffesionnal boards? And by the way why electrolitic caps?
Second why can't you put some heat shrink tube instead of tape that will inevitabely and slowly fall off? Perhaps you sell your pre's too cheap and you're out of money for spending 30pounds for heatgun?Wink



Here on the top middle where the red wire are soldered you can see a nice antenna.
I think its used for listening to Shaka or Rodigan on KISS FM.
Very nice feature for an pre LOL


Why make expensive machine drilled board by profesionnal company and the bend the pin of the cap around it?


Perhaps I'm too demanding but I'v not learned electronic building of this kind.

The owner of this pre gave it to me because he broke one plastic pot. He asked me to put some metal pots and he sayed he was not satisfied with the build quality. I totaly agree. Why sell it so expensive when its so cheap quality?
This kind of building can explain why this unit is so noisy. With all kill switch off you hear the wind blowing thru your speakers - the wires fly around, antenas, flying components,....
The JTS in comparision is dead quiet.
Even worser I approached my laptop PSU accidentaly near the side of the Mostec pre and I heard it thru the speakers. That because of the aluminium casing wich is not as good as steel against EMI/RFI pertubations. JTS use steel like Lincoln.

I'm just talking about the build quality wich is not at level.
But I like the modularized design, the layout and the VU meters

Soon some audio tests

Raspect
Jo
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Masai View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Masai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2008 at 7:00pm
Well, kiss me neck back!!!!!!

No long ting but looking at the pics of mans workmanship, I think it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black!!!!

The blind leading the blind, also springs to mind.......

Just going off on a tangent......

I would like to Bless up Channel One and Touch Above, for a nice lickle sesion down Silent Whispers, last Saturday. It seems like a nice place for sounds with two good stacks. I think ths would help to bring up small/medium sounds. I hope promoters and the people would go out to support and encourage, such a session.

So long as they all used a Mostech pre which was pimped up with valves n ting by Joseph 'hotrod' Redemption, it would be irie......

Give Thanks and Praises - everytime
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Rico View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rico Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2008 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by Joseph Redhemption Joseph Redhemption wrote:

Tweeter Box - For sure you will hear the difference. Like on your pre turn one of the graphic eq pot from the 12oclock pos to say 3 or 4 oclock and I bet you will hear.

DC - Why run a tune on a Garrard? It must be a Swiss Thorens TD124!!! Lol


Whats the joke about those two players?
are they weack?

I only know that shaka is using a Garrard...




Edited by Rico - 30 December 2008 at 8:35pm
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Rootsdriver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rootsdriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2008 at 8:44pm
That`s not the kind of wire wrap I had in mind. That`s wild
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DC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2008 at 8:18am
Originally posted by bitzo bitzo wrote:

sorry but.... this only an equalizer with kill switch, I mean it don't have 3 output (bass, mid, high)
 
Obviously you can't read schematics. There's no killswitch. And i said use it as building block.
This is one of the best tube EQ's around.
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