Plan ! - D-20 (hz) Macro Sub ..tapped horn by moi. |
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nineleaves
Young Croc Joined: 31 August 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1327 |
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well, you can guess at these things ..but actual measurements give you a definitive answer :)
the height of the internal flat walls will determine the modes of cancellation and resonance peaks; though usuallly these are out of the range the subs used in. which occurs first at 1/4 wavelengths and other multiples. |
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freddi
Registered User Joined: 13 December 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 60 |
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cut a really lopsided pipe - its 138 sq.in. (Sd) right above the cutout, 17.75"wx47.75x15.25" external - not sure what aperture to try first - its lopsided and still wet - hope it doesn't rattle much
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1069/krap15.jpg Edited by freddi - 27 March 2009 at 2:59am |
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nineleaves
Young Croc Joined: 31 August 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1327 |
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sweet :)
try fiddling with afew variations of the slot, if you have spl measuring kit of somesort to hand, or a good ear for freq sweeps youll be able to pick the best comprimise. |
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freddi
Registered User Joined: 13 December 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 60 |
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theres a brace starting at ~19" from the cabinet's floor so I can't go up much - - I usually run TrueRTA sine sweeps outdoors - pc is messed up and lost one channel of a NAD amp - - regular Karlson just about require full height slotting - this one for 18" was 42"H x 22.5W x 16D - just blocking a few inches of the top portion of slot seemed to "slow it down" -why? - -its well behaved on big drums - far better than reflex and cleaner sounding in ways than my Klipschorns - there's about 30 sq.in/ of port - it needed to be deeper than the 0.7" material thickness as it was tuned too high - -- the slotted tube HF waveguide could go inside right above the woofer. Slotted tube sound good above 1K6 - the board above the 23 degree woofer panel tilt's forwards by ~6 degrees and theres a curved reflector above that panel. It was an experiment to see what happens going a bit taller aspect-wise than K15 and Fig6 of patent 3540544
one thing I didn't think about whe cutting the panels would be to put an opening on the backside via removable & switchable panels - - that way your inverted tapped horn could also be a regular tapped horn within a couple of minutes here we go - input impedance of the inverted tapped horn with Martin 1844 for three different rectangular openings - the 3rd Z peak @~124Hz stays "about" the same - what do you think of the Z- curve? like the idiot I am I undercut the mounting hole so it won't accept my crappy high mass but long xmax B&C - - subjectively its a bit difficult to tell which aperture is best just running YouTube bass tracks - it could use some truncation down from the full opening without the stub - it seems to have good power and not much cone excursion FWIW = here's a near aperture (rectangular mid-size) graph of the 4.1mH 1844/15269 Martin woofer without and with some polyfill at the line's beginning - my mic moved position so one trace has more dustcap output -- looks like the 3rd Z peak area is about where it gets rough - its got a phat sound and pretty good LF extension- this was 1/24 octave with 1/3 octave smoothing it would look like this - LOL maybe the slotted stub will help too - gotta dig out a couple more woofers ah - here's an old Dayton 295070 with ~28Hz fs, 2226-like specs - 1.4mH Le, crappy mids run high vs 60g mms woofers compared to the 4.1mH low fs Martin 1844/15269 1/24th octave- - - no slot yet - not too shabby input Z for 2950-070 with medium rectangular aperture response 295070 vs 1844/15269 Edited by freddi - 28 March 2009 at 12:21am |
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nineleaves
Young Croc Joined: 31 August 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1327 |
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interesting results..
though you dont seem to be exciting the lower octaves its aimed at.. have a play with afew drivers with strong motors & low resonances & you may hit the pay-dirt. otherwise you may wish to change it over to a conventional tapped horn by moving that centre partition. thats more likely to consistently turn out results than this vexing sod.. which appears to be some sort of mix of quarter wave pipe resonances & air mass effects. (giant, musical pop bottle anyone ? ;) im sure some older members could chuck their two cents in on what they think is happening here, as im still a little puzzled myself about this alignment :) ..but, it works when it wants to - it seems :) btw got a calibrated reference for making senstivity & max spl measurements today, will add my findings about this with my 12" box when i get a chance. Edited by nineleaves - 28 March 2009 at 12:51am |
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Deadbeat
Old Croc Joined: 12 March 2008 Location: Singularity Status: Offline Points: 3167 |
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Hah.
Yerr, it seems to be (as always is with new designs nowadays...hmmm), a mixture of different effects. I'm going to stare at that impedance plot for a bit now.
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Away on extended leave.
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freddi
Registered User Joined: 13 December 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 60 |
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its only 48" tall outside and ~6.5" gap from top of baffle to inside top so its doing pretty well imo for not a lot of path -- 295070 is reasonably strong Q-wise - I took those near-field graphs with it laying on my couch - - no complaints for its power and cone excursin- - - - 1844's high inductance causes it to BP - what would your hornresp model for my pipe look like?
Edited by freddi - 28 March 2009 at 1:21am |
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nineleaves
Young Croc Joined: 31 August 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1327 |
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by pipe you mean the variant of the boxes you built ?
ill look tommorow sometime with the drivers youve tried, specs handy if not readily avail on web. or the karlson ? the carlson couldnt really be modelled in horn resp to my understanding.. mind, if anyone knows of an accoustic equivalent for one in akabak, let us know.. as that could be awfully fun if available ;) :) |
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freddi
Registered User Joined: 13 December 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 60 |
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by "pipe" = the inverted tapped horn I just "built" (LOL - it might fall apart)- - help me describe the hornresp model
a guess at input here's the basic drawing without trimming the mouth - - wow I can't type - guess meant "basic ~40Hz inverted tapped horn..." Edited by freddi - 28 March 2009 at 2:05am |
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nineleaves
Young Croc Joined: 31 August 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1327 |
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well, the model seems to correlate to the graphs round about right :)
ill run over the no's tommorow, though you'll never get the sims to match 100% results with things like this; as theres always something odd at play with this sort of box. just expirment :) kind of an odd choice to tune so high for this fold, may want to drop lower if you can & see what happens; though dont build anything you dont want to :) |
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freddi
Registered User Joined: 13 December 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 60 |
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I choked the mouth down to ~1/2 Sd then down below that but didn't take graphs - - not sure how to enter the correct info in hornresp and would appreciate your interpretation of proper hornresp input so I might better understand how to describe things. IIRC it starts at around 170sq.in. then by the top of the driver is down to ~138sq.in. - then maybe 109 sq.in. at the turnaround and the pipe if totally covered would continue to taper down to 4" depth - I"ll play with it more tomorrow - its not much fun lifting with hiatal hernia and loaded with 22lb driver - makes me leak worse
Edited by freddi - 28 March 2009 at 2:30am |
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nineleaves
Young Croc Joined: 31 August 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1327 |
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well, the most literal way to interprit the size of the mouth is to firstly ignore any slot added, work out the area of the mouth at its narrowest point, & then add this area to that of the slot. this can be taken as the largest area the driver will see the slot as, however it may well behave as slightly less.
however this wont take into account additional loading effects of the slot, which mostly consist of improving the output further up, upon where the loading the air mass infront of the driver comes into play. |
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