line array projects |
Post Reply | Page 123 13> |
Author | |
MattStolton
Old Croc Joined: 04 September 2010 Location: Walthamstow Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 02 August 2015 at 10:46am |
What else matters? I have used some proper pony stuff in my life-time, but with a bit of inventiveness, and doing some crazy, at first glance plain stooopid, arrangements, got a good, enjoyable sound to the audience. With a half decent monitor mix, and a happy audience, the band lift themselves up, and play better, and things carry on getting better. Everyone goes home happy. Now, from a science point of view, I would love to design or use a system, that was "perfect" from a Physicists POV, but that isn't going to be possible. The physics of how we convert electricity to sound, state so pretty quickly, from even the most rudimentary of literary review, it is impossible to get rid of every artifact of distortion or summation issues from our current use of transducers. Some, expensive, techniques offer some benefits, some being DSP, ply or fibre glass, as much as transducer choice. Every current box has a compromise somewhere. However, given how even our current best products get fooked up by not hanging the damn things right, how much is down to the guy flying/rigging it? One joy of MLA, is it tells you exactly how to hang it, and at what angles, for what you want to achieve. Same with other products with EASE type data. However, it, again, comes down to having the knowledge of what to type into the computer, and then the skills to transfer the computer output to real life. Oft used case in point - F1 at Glastonbury. I am sure most would accept F1 cabs are perfectly competent, and there compromise is price, and perhaps, size. However, correct rigging is critical, be that the hang, or the DSP set-up. That year it was slated on Pyramid stage duties (1997 IIRC), you had 100000 60W lightbulbs listening to it, warming the air directly above them. Glasto being Glasto, it was cold and wet, so the layer of air above the "warmed by lightbulbs" air, was very cold. Cue sound being bent from refraction due to travelling faster in warm air, relative to cold air. Error of the cabinet, probably not. Rigging error, maybe, a few more degrees pitching the array down may of helped, but it had already been aimed with a dollop more "down" to already try and keep things in the valley. Ultimately, mother nature threw a curve ball that no one had allowed for, and bit them on the arse. That sounds like an element of Human Error to me. Or, a freak weather event that couldn't have been reasonably allowed for, more accurately?
|
|
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains" |
|
_djk_
Old Croc Joined: 23 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6002 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
"Yes, crossfire will reduce it. Not get rig of it. So still wrong."
It measures better, and it sounds better, especially when you walk the auditorium. It also has a stereo image, where the original hang (the way you guys think is 'right', and the way EV recommends it the Fly Manual) had none.
"Surely having anything more than a single driver, probably a small one at that,"
The EV MTH 4 has four horn-loaded 10's on a quite large horn.
.
|
|
djk
|
|
MattStolton
Old Croc Joined: 04 September 2010 Location: Walthamstow Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Surely having anything more than a single driver, probably a small one at that, only leads to cancellations at some point (wave emanating from one edge of driver will eventually cancel with wave emanating from far edge, at some point, and at some point in the audience, that effect will differ from another point, think Youngs slits/diffraction gratings, etc). Surely the whole game is to "reduce it" to a point where it is not dominant, or noticeable, to ears in audience. So possibly "still wrong" from a perfect theoretical point source physics POV, but if it sounds good in the audience, job done? Ultimately, I am starting to believe that anything with multiple drivers is going to have some level of negative effect, and the only thing to be done, by DSP or ply or fibreglass, is to mininmise these effects. Clever shizzle like MLA has enough DSP to calculate these effects, and actually use them in a beneficial way, so perhaps the future, but it is "still wrong", from a theoretical physics perspective, despite it being perfectly good from an audiences POV, if set-up correctly? Fundamentally, our major problem is the transducers we are using to vibrate air, and the methods we have of coupling these transducers to the air. Painfully inefficient, and, to achieve high SPL, you need lots of them with the implied issues, and most generate audible levels of coloration or even plain distortion. LA is no better necessarily than PS, even has some other issues, but is easy to rig at least.
|
|
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains" |
|
MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yes, crossfire will reduce it. Not get rig of it. So still wrong.
|
|
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
|
pfly
Old Croc Joined: 25 October 2007 Location: Helsinki, Fin Status: Offline Points: 2828 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Still using MTH/MTL on that level?
|
|
_djk_
Old Croc Joined: 23 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6002 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
You think?
Last time my friend Bruce did Aerosmith here in town he had enough gear for an 80,000 seat soccer stadium (in our 10,000 seat indoor auditorium).
|
|
djk
|
|
pfly
Old Croc Joined: 25 October 2007 Location: Helsinki, Fin Status: Offline Points: 2828 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Holy s***t that's a lot of MTH & MTL.
|
|
_djk_
Old Croc Joined: 23 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6002 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
"Comb filter array? "
The angling across for the mid-HF reduces comb filtering.
"What brand / kind of cabinets are they Dennis?"
EV MTH and MTL. The MTH have four DH1A varients for the HF (standard being four DH2 and four DH3).
"3 hangs rigged in a kind of cross firing array seems unusual."
Took me a long time to get them to try it that way (the two angled across each other), after which they admitted it was superior. The problem is with the local stage hands, they think it's 'wrong', and always try and mess up the flybars. Most of the time they just fly it the worst way for that reason. This was a home town show so they used all their own crew and did it right. The papers gave the event a rave review. |
|
djk
|
|
MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Comb filter array?
|
|
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
|
bass*en*mass
Old Croc Joined: 03 September 2009 Location: "unknown" Status: Offline Points: 4009 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
doubt it sounded thin in any LA aspect lol
|
|
Earplug
Old Croc Joined: 03 January 2012 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 7216 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
"3 hangs rigged in a kind of cross firing array seems unusual."
That looks more like a cardoid subwoofer hang. |
|
Earplugs Are For Wimps!
|
|
all bass
Old Croc Joined: 11 October 2012 Location: the Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1855 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
What brand / kind of cabinets are they Dennis?
3 hangs rigged in a kind of cross firing array seems unusual. |
|
https://www.instagram.com/my_modular_journey/
|
|
Post Reply | Page 123 13> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |