Matrix STR3000H in Dub Clash Scandal |
Post Reply | Page <1234> |
Author | |||
cilla.scope
Old Croc Legs all the way to her bottom.... Joined: 02 October 2009 Status: Offline Points: 2954 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
I suspect certain people would be less quick to judge if you said "would an amp sound the same at lower levels with less output devices? I suspect it might, but I might be wrong ..." instead of stating it as a fact, and arguing the toss with experienced amp designers.
At low frequencies, the peak current capability is what counts, and you would run into current limit problems a long long time before you got to overheat problems. You'll find that for driving large speakers (18", 21", with 4" voice coils) large quantities of silicon are what count ... a 5kw amp running at 1000w sounds better than a identical topology 1000W amp at 1000W, large quantites of silicon sound better. Fact. Proven more than enough times. The silicon in a quality amp designed for use with large sub/bass drivers is capable of more power (in terms of thermal capacity of the devices) than it is rated for (or has PSU for) by a factor of 2 or 3 times .... its not there for output power, its there to provide significant current capability into low impedances, with significant reactive content. Go look at an impedance plot (both magnitue and phase angle) for a 18" driver on sub bass duty ... the impedance will dip from a nominal 4 ohms to less than 1 ohm at certain frequncies ... and this is where having large amounts of silicon pays off. Damping factor and back EMF off the driver are significant issues in driving low frequency large speakers with a high mms. The damping factor would increase significantly, reducing cone control even at low powers. Damping factor is not solely dependant on voltage gain in the feedback loop. Current transfer capability plays a significant part too. The cororally of this is that I have seen far too many attempts to adapt a hi-fi amplifier design to PA use, simply by bolting on more output devices, in the forlorn hope that it will scale up to a 1000W + capability. It doesn't work that way, which is why good sounding PA amps are not as common as you might have hoped. |
|||
My girlfriend thinks I'm a stalker.
Well, she's not exactly my girlfriend yet ... |
|||
mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Old Croc Joined: 03 November 2008 Location: Brighton Status: Offline Points: 7801 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
it may be good, but its still bloody ugly/blank!! the facade looks very budget :(
|
|||
''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it''
''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart'' |
|||
SamV
Old Croc Joined: 21 October 2008 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 8707 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
I kinda like the look, simple, understated and here to do a job. At worst you could probably call it plain.
|
|||
ArthurG
Young Croc Joined: 03 May 2004 Location: France - China Status: Offline Points: 976 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
yeah that's right, it looks the same to me. But you must consider the fact that a good face plate costs a lot of money in Europe. From what I see, with Matrix amps you pay for performance, not fancy looking. For some people it's the most important, for other well you have better choices around. but its more (much more) expensive...
|
|||
cravings
Old Croc Joined: 30 January 2007 Location: Ireland Status: Online Points: 7441 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
i quite like the "plain" front. you can put it in a rack with anything else and it doesn't look out of place.
|
|||
teslaman
Registered User Joined: 11 June 2009 Location: Huntingdon Status: Offline Points: 302 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
|
|||
teslaman
Registered User Joined: 11 June 2009 Location: Huntingdon Status: Offline Points: 302 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Sorry, I missed the point here! Damn the lack of edit feature!!
The *same* topology 5Kw amp sounds better than its 1kW brother - I remain to be convinced on this, what is the reason? I can't simply accept more silicon = better performance. There must be a quantifyable reason and if both amps can deliver enough current and are running un-clipped then what can it be?? If you say it's down to damping factor then what would happen if this was made identical too?
|
|||
Dougies Music
Young Croc Joined: 02 September 2005 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1102 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
why did this argument stop?
|
|||
tallmike
Old Croc Joined: 18 September 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2684 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
cilly.scope got owned
|
|||
cilla.scope
Old Croc Legs all the way to her bottom.... Joined: 02 October 2009 Status: Offline Points: 2954 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
no, I thought I won, and I haven't got the energy to convince fools of the errors of their ways ... if he thinks he can get the same sound by ripping 80% of the output devices out of an amp, let him. its a well known and proven too many times fact that you need significantly more current capability than you might think to drive a bass bin well. that why amps with plenty of silicon in the output stages sound better than cheap ones with economies.
Speakers do not present a resistive load, they present a complex impedance, often dipping below the 'nominal' impedance of the speaker and to deliver 1000W of power you will often need more current than the calculation for a straight 8 ohms resistive would imply ... which is why a 1000W amp attempting to run 1000W into a bin will not sound as good as a 5K amp of the same design doing the same job. And thats before we even start thinking about headroom. Edited by cilla.scope - 03 January 2010 at 6:38pm |
|||
My girlfriend thinks I'm a stalker.
Well, she's not exactly my girlfriend yet ... |
|||
cilla.scope
Old Croc Legs all the way to her bottom.... Joined: 02 October 2009 Status: Offline Points: 2954 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Oh, sure, theres no reason a different design smaller amp wont sound better , better, smaller amp wont sound better than a poorer larger amp .. but we where talking about identical desin topologies. lets say we have a 1Kw amp rated into 4R resistive, at 1000W I^2 R = 1000, so about 16A ... so lets say it has enough silicon to manage 16A and goes into current limit above that ... whats it going to do when it tries to drive into 3R and deliver 100W of output into a load presenting a 60 degree phase angle? cos phi will be 0.5 ... so you already need 32A .. and into 3R (quite possible at certain frequnecies in a nominal 4R driver) .. 40A? This is why you need more current capability than the basic power equation would suggest ... the impedances are not pure resistive and not a nice constant 4R either. If you measure up the actual output current capaility based on the silicon of any decent amp, you'll be suprised at how many times overrated it is. Its not done for fun. AMp makers dont typically use more silicon than they have to for no good reason ... Anyway, you go ahead and rip 80% of the output devices out of an amp and see if it sounds the same. |
|||
My girlfriend thinks I'm a stalker.
Well, she's not exactly my girlfriend yet ... |
|||
EmPro
Young Croc Joined: 26 June 2020 Status: Offline Points: 766 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
EmPro Audio
|
|||
Post Reply | Page <1234> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |