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Bose 802C2 Controller Frequency Response

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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2020 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by Timo Beckman Timo Beckman wrote:

Regarding the measurement you did . Using smaart allows you to make a FFT measurement . To know what your processor is doing you need to measure with a FFT and not a RTA because it does not display time

This. Since you are using smaart you could store the transfer function of the processor output, overlay the dcx2496 live measurement and fiddle until you match frequency and phase. Disable delay tracking in measurement to keep it the same.

Be aware that filter definition does not translate so well from system to system, so some parameters from other sources may result a little bit different on dcx2496, or other dsps.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jjoakim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2020 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by djeddie djeddie wrote:

A club I used to work in had 802's over 502's and they just used the 802 controller. It sounded OK, for Bose.

Yea, they sound good but there is not enough gain to 502B subs to produce enough bass.. that's why I need to use external equ.


Edited by jjoakim - 12 August 2020 at 9:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 100 Volt-line Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2020 at 5:20pm
I have a pile of 802's for outdoor use at country fairs and county shows and the like. Usually we spread 16 of them on sticks around an 100m square arena with good results. All run from QSC 3002 amps, and Bose digital controller, and digital desk with high pass set at 150Hz.
As an all-round box they do what we want, and yes, of course there are better speakers! 
I am a great believer in using the correct controller for any system, and not trying to 'cheat' with EQ. But that's just me, others may see it differently. Controllers crop up on the Bay for around £150 ish fairly regularly, and I use the silver model (there is an older black one) and run a combination of Mk2's and Mk3's on the Mk3 setting, and can't tell any difference. Obviously, using a pair for an Iron Maiden tribute band, or even a wedding disco is a bad idea; in that scenario, you really are better off with something else.
I think (but could be wrong) it was John Meyer who first came up with the idea of a controller as part of a 'system'; probably around the same time roughly as Dr Bose did. The original passive Meyer UPA-1 had a dedicated controller, the M-1A. And, while Meyer stuff these days is all self powered, you can just about guarantee the amp modules contain plenty of processing, too.

It's also worth remembering that Bose are a marketing company that sell speakers, rather than a speaker manufacturer with a marketing department!

Just my four penn'orth!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djeddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2020 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by 100 Volt-line 100 Volt-line wrote:

...and not trying to 'cheat' with EQ...


It maybe different for the newer controllers, but the original non-19" units were just EQ. There was nothing else in there! Shed loads of boost in the LF and HF areas, no phase control, no delay but nothing else. So yes, you can use EQ and it not be cheating, it's just what Bose did in the first place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2020 at 6:25pm
Originally posted by 100 Volt-line 100 Volt-line wrote:

I have a pile of 802's for outdoor use at country fairs and county shows and the like. Usually we spread 16 of them on sticks around an 100m square arena with good results. All run from QSC 3002 amps, and Bose digital controller, and digital desk with high pass set at 150Hz.
As an all-round box they do what we want, and yes, of course there are better speakers! 
I am a great believer in using the correct controller for any system, and not trying to 'cheat' with EQ. But that's just me, others may see it differently. Controllers crop up on the Bay for around £150 ish fairly regularly, and I use the silver model (there is an older black one) and run a combination of Mk2's and Mk3's on the Mk3 setting, and can't tell any difference. Obviously, using a pair for an Iron Maiden tribute band, or even a wedding disco is a bad idea; in that scenario, you really are better off with something else.
I think (but could be wrong) it was John Meyer who first came up with the idea of a controller as part of a 'system'; probably around the same time roughly as Dr Bose did. The original passive Meyer UPA-1 had a dedicated controller, the M-1A. And, while Meyer stuff these days is all self powered, you can just about guarantee the amp modules contain plenty of processing, too.

It's also worth remembering that Bose are a marketing company that sell speakers, rather than a speaker manufacturer with a marketing department!

Just my four penn'orth!

Yup exactly that box shifter's 
The Bose design is getting on for 50 years old it's not really going to get any better is it? as for Bose doing a powered version (as mentioned about page 2 of this post) they tried that and they sounded pretty crap too and stupidly expensive and heavy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jjoakim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2020 at 7:24pm
Originally posted by 100 Volt-line 100 Volt-line wrote:

Obviously, using a pair for an Iron Maiden tribute band, or even a wedding disco is a bad idea; in that scenario, you really are better off with something else.


I have to disagree! 

I was last weekend on wedding gig with 4x502BEX and 2x802mk2. That was my first gig with four subs and sound was amazing. I played mostly 90s disco.

Bose 802c2 controller is set to full range but everything goes first thru behringer crossover, were x-over is set to 130hz, so subs play below that.

Here is a picture of that gig.


EDIT: yes there could be better ones, 18" subs.. but they are too huge. I have had 3 different 18" active subs. Behringer, Proel, JBL. They all sucked..


Edited by jjoakim - 29 August 2020 at 8:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sonic the hedge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2020 at 11:02pm
Much as I dislike Bose and their 'lifestyle' products, 802s do have their uses and can sound pretty good in the right application. They can achieve good coverage and a rich full sound at a level low enough for people to still have a normal conversation.

Good for very compact small room systems, when used with some decent bins - think chill-out/back-room in large venue etc. Also good for side fill at lower output level for small spaces e.g. corridors, bar areas, toilets etc. But IMO not really suitable for main FOH with any scale, and distinctly lacking the banging presence needed for dance/club systems. They are just not loud enough!

Back in the day the main concern with 802s was lack of efficiency, but today amps are cheap and everyone is using active EQ, DSP etc. Think a big part of what gave 802s a poor reputation in the pro world is down to being underpowered or overdriven, when attempting to use them in applications beyond their capabilities. But impressive that a 40 year old design can still be useful sometimes.


Edited by Sonic the hedge - 29 August 2020 at 11:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote njw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2020 at 12:08am
Originally posted by Sonic the hedge Sonic the hedge wrote:


Good for very compact small room systems, toilets etc. 

 That about sums it up for me. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BJtheDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2020 at 1:00am
Originally posted by Sonic the hedge Sonic the hedge wrote:

Much as I dislike Bose and their 'lifestyle' products, 802s do have their uses and can sound pretty good in the right application. They can achieve good coverage and a rich full sound at a level low enough for people to still have a normal conversation.

Good for very compact small room systems, when used with some decent bins - think chill-out/back-room in large venue etc. Also good for side fill at lower output level for small spaces e.g. corridors, bar areas, toilets etc. But IMO not really suitable for main FOH with any scale, and distinctly lacking the banging presence needed for dance/club systems. They are just not loud enough!

Back in the day the main concern with 802s was lack of efficiency, but today amps are cheap and everyone is using active EQ, DSP etc. Think a big part of what gave 802s a poor reputation in the pro world is down to being underpowered or overdriven, when attempting to use them in applications beyond their capabilities. But impressive that a 40 year old design can still be useful sometimes.


Saw James Last back in the 70s, pile of 16 802's each side of the stage - 302's along the front.  Satisfactory at the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sonic the hedge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2020 at 3:10am
Originally posted by BJtheDJ BJtheDJ wrote:


Saw James Last back in the 70s, pile of 16 802's each side of the stage - 302's along the front.  Satisfactory at the time.

I too have seen/heard Bose 802/302 systems with 20+ boxes a side. It's still quite a neat idea, it was the first common line array concept really, it's nice and simple because the drivers are all identical and physically aligned which helps avoid phase & timing issues.
 
They sound alright but just like contemporary LA systems, seem to be lacking 'something'. So I think the best application is for small spaces and fill when looking for decent sound quality at lower levels. In this there is not much else to match them even today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2020 at 10:10am
Back in the good old days, I used to work the Rose Of Tralee festival in Ireland on a regular basis and from my fading memory there were about 24x802s a side on the main outdoor stage along with a dozen or so B502s and every year the sound was excellent compared to a lot of other festivals in those days.
It did help that the festival was sponsored and supported by Bose so it was pretty much one of their biggest prestige gigs in Europe at that time so it was in their interest to get it right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2020 at 3:53pm
I was looking at the prices (current) for a bose system 20 x 802's and 10 LT MB24 bass cabs (302 not listed anymore) and with the contoller that would come out to roughly 45 grand a side + vat
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