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Amp Internals 2

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TMH Music Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2019 at 1:36am
Originally posted by Chris Grimshaw Chris Grimshaw wrote:

Anyone interested in seeing a Crown MA12000i?

Got one here I don't mind opening up.

Chris

Anyone interested you ask???!!!!!

Erm............do fish swim??!!!!, does night follow day???!!!!, does a bear sh*t in the woods????!!!!!!

HELL YEAH!!!!!!!


Edited by TMH Music - 16 April 2019 at 1:41am
Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Grimshaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 9:07am
Hopefully the pictures work now.

Pop the lid (which is actually the bottom panel) and we get this:


Close-up of the caps. I didn't switch it on to test rail voltages, but given the output power ratings, I'd expect them to be running in the 190-200V DC range.



Next up, I put my phone into the gap at the top left corner of the first picture, and took a picture pointing towards the front of the amp:



Bit of heatsink in the distance - I suspect that runs the whole way across.

At the PSU section (the bit that isn't covered), we've got some smaller grey caps:



With a scary-high voltage rating. Wouldn't want to touch those terminals.

Finally, the output inductors:



If you charge all the big caps fully, you've got 580J of energy storage (an MA5002VZ has 363J), although that only tells part of the story - it's also important to know how often they're charged from the power supply. A really big capacitor bank charged up once per second might fare worse than a small capacitor bank that's being charged up 1000 times per second.

It would be interesting to take the panel off the PSU section, but I'm afraid there are too many screws in awkward places - I'd have to start removing PCBs, and I don't fancy doing that on an amp as expensive as this.

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 9:16am
I have the Itech 8000, which looks almost identical, buth with dsp ofcourse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Grimshaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 10:31am
Yeah, from what I've heard the MAi and Itech lines are very similar.
I got this amp for a great deal because the seller didn't have the correct power cable, so they hadn't tested it. They still offered a warranty, though, so all I had to do was find a cable to get it up and running.

As you'd expect from Crown, it worked perfectly and ran my subs for a few years. I moved across to Powersoft T-series and lost a little power, but the functionality and rack space was worth it.

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbl_man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 3:01pm
Thanks for the photos Chris. Would love to see the output stage (number and type of transistors etc), but like you say, would involve removing boards etc. I expect one day someone will have one in for repair we can see.
Be seeing you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Grimshaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 4:18pm
I got brave and went a little further. Getting to the output devices was just a matter of removing the output inductors. Couple of screws and some big spade terminals, and off they come.

There are four banks of output devices in total.

The one I checked had these:
4x IRFB20N50K
2x ISL9R3060P2

I don't know a lot about circuit design, and even less about high-frequency switch-mode stuff.
If anyone has any clues about whether those parts are good/bad/indifferent, it'd be an interesting read.

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbl_man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by Chris Grimshaw Chris Grimshaw wrote:

I got brave and went a little further. Getting to the output devices was just a matter of removing the output inductors. Couple of screws and some big spade terminals, and off they come.

There are four banks of output devices in total.

The one I checked had these:
4x IRFB20N50K
2x ISL9R3060P2

I don't know a lot about circuit design, and even less about high-frequency switch-mode stuff.
If anyone has any clues about whether those parts are good/bad/indifferent, it'd be an interesting read.

Chris


They dont appear to be output devices in the conventional sense, the ISL9 is a "stealth" diode, and the IRFB is a SMPS Hexfet for high-speed power switching?

https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/ISL9R3060P2-D.PDF

http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfb20n50k.pdf

Edit...just read the specs, they are rated at 600v! Beware poking around inside with it switched on....like you said with the capacitors, some scary voltages inside these.



Edited by jbl_man - 18 April 2019 at 9:28am
Be seeing you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ricci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 5:31pm
A few random amp pics I have...May as well contribute.
Speakerpower Sp2-12000
 
 
 
SP12K
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ricci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 5:34pm
Speakerpower SP1-4000 plate amp.
 
Note the differences in the caps from the SP2-12000 amp in the previous post. The SP2 is a pair of more powerful 6000 modules.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Grimshaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

Originally posted by Chris Grimshaw Chris Grimshaw wrote:

I got brave and went a little further. Getting to the output devices was just a matter of removing the output inductors. Couple of screws and some big spade terminals, and off they come.

There are four banks of output devices in total.

The one I checked had these:
4x IRFB20N50K
2x ISL9R3060P2

I don't know a lot about circuit design, and even less about high-frequency switch-mode stuff.
If anyone has any clues about whether those parts are good/bad/indifferent, it'd be an interesting read.

Chris


They dont appear to be output devices in the conventional sense, the ISL9 is a "stealth" diode, and the IRFB is a SMPS Hexfet for high-speed power switching?

https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/ISL9R3060P2-D.PDF

http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfb20n50k.pdf



Given that it's a switch-mode amplifier, the high-frequency switching mosfets make an amount of sense.
Not sure on the diodes, but perhaps someone that knows more about these amps can chime in.

Chris
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www.grimshawaudio.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by Ricci Ricci wrote:


A few random amp pics I have...May as well contribute.
Speakerpower Sp2-12000
 
 
 
SP12K


These have insane current capability but I am genuinely scared of the power supply setup! It’s a nightmare if they fail too, 100% return to base isn’t much use if you’re outside the USA. Or even if you’re in it, but many states over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbl_man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 7:27pm
^ Looks like someone has been in there with a tube of no-nail! Big smile
Be seeing you.
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