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Witch driver instead of the PD1850 aka witch amp

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turbo7 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turbo7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2014 at 10:51pm
get some scoops, you can not compare x1 against a high power 18" scoop.... you will blow drivers in the future i am sure... your subs already reached the limit, i have a lot of experience with x1 and i tell you one thing, get scoops for the music you play... 4 scoops are also happy with a proline and will  give you a lot more output, or buy a standard china  class h design like pronomic xa-1400 or one of the other 100eds of amps with same design but different name for cheap money
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Tengu Collective View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tengu Collective Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2014 at 6:22am
thanks very helpfull, no we won't get scoops - it's not just about blowing bass, it's about accurate and precise bass, and I can't use a scoop for that compared to an X1. And I also heard different X1 with different drivers and amps, and I know there is something to improve - obviously the amp-

So, I'm looking for a new amp - not new cabinets. And I don't want to buy a cheap amp unless there is a real good reason, because I all ready have to buy second time after those crests where disappointing.

Wink


Edited by Tengu Collective - 25 February 2014 at 6:31am
TENGU COLLECTIVE

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turbo7 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turbo7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2014 at 8:33am
" it's not just about blowing bass, it's about accurate and precise bass "

that is another reason why you should get scoops. Take a tight chamber scoop design with high BL driver and you have more output and better sound than with the quite unaccurate x1.... dont forget it is a bandpass. If the output does not satisfy you with proline amp you need a different design, it is the limit of the cab.

If you like the x1 ( i like them too, but small cab means small output ) you should be very careful, i have blown void drivers very quick which take 400W more in a scoop.


Edited by turbo7 - 25 February 2014 at 9:59am
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Tengu Collective View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tengu Collective Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2014 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by turbo7 turbo7 wrote:

If the output does not satisfy you with proline amp you need a different design, it is the limit of the cab.

I will keep that in mind, I'm aware that scoops got a higher output but I always prefered the clean sound of the x1 for electronic music (and otherwise the warm sound of scoops fro dub & reggae)

Originally posted by turbo7 turbo7 wrote:

 If you like the x1 ( i like them too, but small cab means small output ) you should be very careful, i have blown void drivers very quick which take 400W more in a scoop. 

This too, I think we will go for 2x prolines for 4x x1's, and limit them proper to be safe.

Originally posted by turbo7 turbo7 wrote:

Take a tight chamber scoop design with high BL driver and you have more output and better sound than with the quite unaccurate x1

By speaking of it, witch scoops design would be best for pd1850? I've read the supers fit better with v1000's...

cheers! 



TENGU COLLECTIVE

The one original dubstep sound out the east of switzerland.

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Tengu Collective View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tengu Collective Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2014 at 7:37pm
You guys are a huge help! Thank you very much for all the usefull informations!

I have one last question. Imagine a setup with 4x x1's powered with 2x proline3000, would I prefer to

A) power them in bridge mode, so each pd will get 1500 watt at 4 ohm or
B) power them in parallel mode so each pd will get 1100 watt at 8 ohm,

What do you guys think?

1love & big up
Tengu Collective


Edited by Tengu Collective - 19 March 2014 at 9:16pm
TENGU COLLECTIVE

The one original dubstep sound out the east of switzerland.

tengucollective.ch
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soundcloud.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/djtaiken
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turbo7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2014 at 1:03pm
If you play Dubstep you have to cope with an even lower Crestfactor than with Roots/Dub music, bridging proline is only for experienced soundman which know the drivers limit, otherwise it leads surely to death of drivers, even 1100W is too much with Crestfaktors of 1db or lower and it is definetly not worth putting 1,4k instead of 1,1k because of powercompression and no time for cooling coils with long b-lines...

In my eyes: FORGET IT or build more cabs if you do not switch to scoops which would be highly recommended
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tengu Collective Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2014 at 9:12pm
thank you for your recommendations & help, but take it easy,
if anyone in switzerland knows how to control the signal chain & sound of his self built system properly, than we do.


Edited by Tengu Collective - 19 March 2014 at 9:22pm
TENGU COLLECTIVE

The one original dubstep sound out the east of switzerland.

tengucollective.ch
facebook.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/djtaiken
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turbo7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2014 at 7:46am
I am easy, i am just repeating what many other posters said before me in this thread and i have fortunately a lot of experience with your cabs and how to power them properly. Everything has been said, but you seem to ignore it, reread the answers and you will find a solution.

X1 + Proline 3000 in bridge mode 4 ohm is twice a bad idea, i do honestly not know if the amp likes it or not ( 2 ohm is most likely not ideal for the amp ), but your drivers will blow if you dont know the limit, which is not easy to know with the X1 cab and the crestfactor in your music. Again, you still reach the limit of the cab with 8ohm stereo proline so there is no significant gain in output but in stress for the driver. Proline gives more power even at 40hz as stated.

Build more cabs or switch to a more efficient design, scoop would be the first choice for your application.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tengu Collective Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2014 at 10:26pm
thank you for your input, but I read all the posts very carefully and I'm considering all advices. So I'm not ignoring what people suggested to me. (But some people are clearly ignoring that scoops aren NO option for us, as many times mentioned during the discussion)

As many times said in the tread, 4 ohm is no hustle for the proline. Except to the inf8, it seems like the proline would be many peoples choice for this situation - under the qualification of a carefully controlled signal chain and no clipping at all. I believe you that you have many experience with this cab - so probably you are willing to share some of your experience on in safety control? 

You must see, we are very careful operators. We are probably crazy about bass, but not at any price.
And by the way - we ARE upgrading from 4 to 6 x1's. And if the limit of the cab is reached with 8ohm proline, I realize that fully and I will live with it. (or build even more cabs Wink)

Greetings

Edit: our Signal Chain: from a Mackie or Allen & Heath Desk -> Art HQ31 Eq -> DBX 166 Comp / Limiter -> DCX 2496 (X1: 40-80hz, 48db Butterworth) -> Amps


Edited by Tengu Collective - 21 March 2014 at 10:47pm
TENGU COLLECTIVE

The one original dubstep sound out the east of switzerland.

tengucollective.ch
facebook.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/djtaiken
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turbo7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2014 at 7:09pm
4 ohm  bridge means 2 ohms for the amp which can work well but should never be recommended as the "best" choice imo, the components especially in cheap amps like proline will not like it and the amplifier lifetime span will be decreased. I like the idea of having a  cheap bridged amplifier for every sub, easy load for every decent amplifier and you do not need  a 32A plug if you would go for one big amp for 6 subs.
If you do not like Scoops, you could also have an eye on Rearloaded Horns LOLEmbarrassed

"if anyone in switzerland knows how to control the signal chain & sound of his self built system properly, than we do"

at least the marketing is consistent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tengu Collective Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 March 2014 at 12:26pm
I know, 4ohm bridge is the same like 2ohm stereo for the amp, it was also mentioned in the thread. I would probably anyway go for powering them at 8ohm, less struggle for the amp + the damping factor increases at least a bit. 

Yeah, shure why not building some rearloaded horns Wacko Wink

Greetings
TENGU COLLECTIVE

The one original dubstep sound out the east of switzerland.

tengucollective.ch
facebook.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/djtaiken
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C-Audiofreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2014 at 4:22pm
How bout two c-audio SR 707 mk1 both run mono parallel two x1 per amp surely those old skool back breakers would have the balls to run sub duties and maybe a couple of xr3801 to run the kicks although a much lower league of amps they do seem ballsy and reliable and if they do ever go wrong they are easy and cheap to self repair
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