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24" driver in horn?
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roborg View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 January 2008 at 9:38pm
personally i sort of like big drivers in short horns.  Biggest i'll ever put in one is an 18, and probably not again (unless some1 pays me to do it Wink)
  For new designs & cabinets I'm totally a small driver convert.  I got one 4x12" at the mo & i'll have 3 more soon ;)


Edited by roborg - 15 January 2008 at 9:39pm
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Mark James View Drop Down
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as demonstrated by the lab horn, its a 2x12 with the 2 12s designed to closely replicate the 18/21/24 etc..........
me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure
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I think there is a lot to be said for small horn drivers as apposed to large ones. If you multiply the small drivers to give you the same area as a large one, as long as they go low enough in the begining, it's possble you would get a more accurate sound due to a quicker speed response and also larger power handling. A 4x12 horn is not hard to do and is nothing new. EAW have had on for ages. Perhaps small is bigger.
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Depends what you want from a system I have 3 main points

1) How low do you want the system to go - going low requires a large horn mouth, and a larger driver means a larger expansion for a lower compression ratio otherwise you are going to destroy the driver in seconds. A 24" driver and a long horn with a large cross sectional area is going to be ridiculously large and will still have only the powerhandling of at most 2x12 and more power compression since the voice coil is usually only slightly larger than an 18"

2) How much bandwidth do you want to try and force out of the system - a larger driver means a larger amount of air to move which makes them poorer at the transients than a smaller driver, unless they have a BL from hell

3) How much power do you want to drive each cabinet with? From what you have said about distortion from driving cabinets with lots of power you probably just need to be using more cabinets. The caveat that bill applies quite rightly to the fact that his horns use smaller lower powered drivers is not to drive them with more than 500W regardless of the power handling. If thats not loud enough use more cabinets. That way you can still use a high compression ratio, have low distortion and also low power compression. I agree that driving cabs with no more than about 500W is really beneficial as the additional output ends up in the upper bass as distortion not in the lower bass where you really want it as was proved by the SPL response charts by the 2007 Bass shootout at Tulsa

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Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

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roborg View Drop Down
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Points: 1026 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2008 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Disco Stu Disco Stu wrote:

Bad idea which is quite perfectly explained here.

http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1130

Stu

eAddOnload(bmi_load,"bmi_orig_img");//-->
 
hehe bf kinda likes to annoy people LOL 
Originally posted by bill fitz bill fitz wrote:

Too large a cone won't stand up to the pressures of a horn throat. Even fifteens are vulnerable to cone damage, such as this one. Fifteens are OK in horns provided you don't try to get too much output from too few boxes (see Avoid Blown Drivers, http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=698), but if you want to get the maximum possible output from only one or two T36 or T48s load them with two twelves rather than one fifteen.

As for eighteens, forget about it. Aside from the fact that they are very vulnerable to damage with high power inputs, they just don't work well in horns. Horn loaded cabinets get low extension via a long path length; an eighteen takes up so much room inside the cabinet that there's not enough room left over for a long horn. Eighteens are only used by those who don't understand how horns work, or those selling their horns to those who don't understand how horns work. Or both. Here is a perfect example. This SPL chart compares a T36S loaded with a Definimax 4015 driver to a Cerwin-Vega L36 folded horn, loaded with an 18. Both cabs are the same size, 36x36x24 inches:
 
he's right about the cones usually not being up to the job.  However a big driver requires a shorter path for the same low roll off as a smaller driver.  Also a big driver in a suitable horn suffers alot less second order distortion than a small one.  So as long as the cone is stiff enough to resist flexing too much & the motor is strong, a big driver has advantages.
  The best bit of a big driver based horn is opening the box of a new 18 or larger speaker & seeing the monster...  My preferrence is now for smaller drivers, like the ciare 12.00sw, but then i pay for that with higher distortion when driven hard (not such a bad thing imho)
 
cheers,
  Rob


Edited by roborg - 15 January 2008 at 5:37pm
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opus jody View Drop Down
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Points: 1246 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opus jody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2007 at 4:41am
i thought the subject was 24's . Norty 'll smack your botty!
worth checking the beyma 21" out too, for horns. it does need treating though, to stiffen the paper, particularly on the 1st rib out from the centre.


Edited by opus jody - 12 April 2007 at 4:44am
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While were on the subject...someone come up with plans for the PD 2150's 21" Drivers !
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2007 at 7:04pm
Bad idea which is quite perfectly explained here.

http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1130

Stu

eAddOnload(bmi_load,"bmi_orig_img");//-->
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches
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rich, ind.st View Drop Down
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Points: 1096 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rich, ind.st Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2007 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by Ray666 Ray666 wrote:

:) ouhhhh jeaaaahhhhh :D i love big speakers - i think about that basement thing you mentioned about Pat - i have full basement under my house about 100 m2:D:D:D so i am realy considering of making a "sound room" down there :D oh it will be funnnnnnn ... imagine the horns made out of concrete :D and the mid tops to - i think im going to build this room a very long time - its going to happen in the future - i`m sure of it:D

Peace!!!

Raimo;)


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LF H1024
 

Low frequency system - front loaded horn design – passive
Designed to extend the low frequency range of long throw mid-high frequency systems at high sound pressure levels.
Applications
The LF H1024 finds its application in systems for:
distributed sound reproduction: e.g. large clubs and dance halls
sound reinforcement: e.g. medium to large concerts, large musicals, operas and circuses

Description
The LF H1024 is the largest member of the horn loaded low frequency systems. The system is designed to extend the low frequency range of long throw mid-high frequency loudspeaker systems. Delta Loudspeakers SA is one of a few professional loudspeakers manufacturers that provides 24 inch low frequency systems.
This system is based on a 24 inch transducer with a 160 mm voice coil integrated in a sealed enclosure and coupled to bended horns. The horn design is inferred from a snail-shell. The mouth opening covering the complete front of the cabinet assures a low cut-off frequency. The enforced enclosure is manufactured with 24 and 48 mm Finnish birch plywood glued together in conjunction with dado joints to assure the highest quality of robustness. The black textured semi-matt paint makes the enclosure water repellent. The horn is protected by an aluminium grid with octagonal holes, designed for maximal strength and acoustical transparency. The removable foam attached to the grid protects the system from splash water and dust. Two Speakon® male connectors assure reliable electrical connections and the possibility to feed the signal through the system. Four large recessed steel bar handles and wheels mounted on the rear panel assure comfortable carriage. The system is optionally available for fix installations without wheels and handles.

Related and complementary products
Following complementary mid-high frequency loudspeaker systems are recommended for a well-balanced sound sensation:
mid-high frequency horn systems: MH H2010 and MH H1010 (long throw)
line arrays: LA 2005 and LA 2005SP (self-powered)
amplifier: AMP 2000 (bridged mode)

Related products:
low frequency systems / horn: LF H1021
low frequency systems / vented: LF HR1024

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Ray666 View Drop Down
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Points: 81 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2007 at 2:46pm
:) ouhhhh jeaaaahhhhh :D i love big speakers - i think about that basement thing you mentioned about Pat - i have full basement under my house about 100 m2:D:D:D so i am realy considering of making a "sound room" down there :D oh it will be funnnnnnn ... imagine the horns made out of concrete :D and the mid tops to - i think im going to build this room a very long time - its going to happen in the future - i`m sure of it:D

Peace!!!

Raimo;)


Edited by Ray666 - 11 April 2007 at 2:49pm
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Jay Lawless View Drop Down
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Points: 1702 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jay Lawless Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2007 at 5:16am
it's possible, but no point to it. if you went that route i hope it's a perma install and not something you will be move 3 times a week...
 
take the PD2450... huge and is in the TSW 124 i do believe that Mykey posted. i would still go for 4x 18's vs 2x 24's though...
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Background: Automotive, Live and Home Custom Design. mid/high level based design and feild experience. Bass specialist
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