HK Elements?? |
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corell
Young Croc Joined: 19 August 2013 Location: Berlin Status: Offline Points: 1161 |
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your right, that is the more common formula, but mine is IMO easier to use when you want to do the maths without a calculator available...
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Earplug
Old Croc Joined: 03 January 2012 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 7216 |
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Calculator? What calculator?....
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Earplugs Are For Wimps!
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AJordan
Young Croc Joined: 06 July 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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OK so these cabs are arrayed vertically. Is there any gain from multiple vertically arrayed cabs? I would imagine yes but is there a way to calculate this?
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Earplug
Old Croc Joined: 03 January 2012 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 7216 |
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Nothing new under the sun - just a scaled-down version of these:
Early line-array!! |
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Earplugs Are For Wimps!
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AJordan
Young Croc Joined: 06 July 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Absolutely, line array, collumn speaker all just names really.
HK claim wide coverage as the advantage of the column then quote 70deg horizontal. I wouldnt call that wide. They then show an optimum system with two subs stacked side by side with a collumn on each. So, collumns of three inch drivers about 18 inches apart playing mid/high freqs. Sounds like lots of lobing /combing possibilities there! |
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Conanski
Old Croc Joined: 26 January 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2544 |
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This is what is advertised by some online retailers as a "Band PA", that's $7400 in speakers that might just be capable of 126db max.
Edited by Conanski - 18 May 2014 at 3:59pm |
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AJordan
Young Croc Joined: 06 July 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Well, much to my dismay and against my advice the organisers have decided to stick with the elements kit. Despite the fact that I got them some very good prices from people with 'proper' PA.
Guess I am gonna hear for myself what this stuff can or cant do |
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AJordan
Young Croc Joined: 06 July 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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OK its all over and done now and I have a possibly long
winded tale to tell.
Couple of weeks before gig the system owner rings me up for our tech
requirements and says he's now bringing one of his larger rigs, a HK Linear 5
rock pack "Very high SPL and 4.4k of grunt, plenty of punch for the car
park". Me to self "Oh dear". Sounds good doesn’t it. Well, clarity is good but can you get any more out of this rig? What are you like? Well, we are having this conversation with barely raised voices, its pretty quiet at the back and there isn’t much low end! What do you normally play through? This is a five and a half grand rig! Oh! I go for another walk. Between the two sweet spots the lead vocals are getting a bit lost in the stage spill. I go to tell the system owner who is now in the van with the engineer. By the side of the van the vocals sound fine. I tell him the problem. What do you want me to do? I would raise the vocals till they are above the stage spill then raise everything else to balance or just try raising the master! System owner reaches over and raises a fader a bit till there is a howl of feedback and backs it off again. “I’ve got it up about 1.5db but were not gonna get any more than that!” I shrug and go off to enjoy the rest of the night with my girlfriend and band mates. The crowd are having a good time and two songs from the end the backing vocals appear in the PA. I think to myself “ I would have put those four subs in one block in the centre under the truck”. Next morning I walk back through the town to the venue, I meet one of the organising committee. She greets me with… I don’t know what you were on about, last nights bands sounded great! Well, it’s a different PA to what was originally spec and I still didn’t think it was very good but if you’re happy then… I get back to venue mid morning, many hours before the evening events are to start. I say a friendly hello to system owner and ask politely if I can help him with the sound system… You know I’ve been thinking about this all night and the system is what it is and your band is just gonna have to deal with it! I have my outboard rack and amongst other things I have four channels of 30 band graphics, which I think could do a lot of good! I don’t have time to be setting up 30 CHANNELS of graphics! I tell him I could patch it in and ring the system out in 15 min but he’s having none of it. I go off to fill in time until the TdF passes through town. TdF was awesome, town was buzzing and really happy atmosphere all round. I go back up town afterwards to the venue where the system owner’s big screen is showing TdF coverage. Sound is through the PA and sounds pretty good and is at a good level for that sort of thing. System owner and engineer are at the van so I think its worth one more try. I start with the engineer first. You know, I am sure I could help you solve that feedback problem… We didn’t have any feedback… He then goes on to tell me that.. An engineer who always works with a certain major media star once told me that these type of high quality systems always sound quieter than you think they are but if you meter them then you will see that they are really loud but you are used to hearing cheap distorting PAs that sound louder but really aren’t! I can’t explain it but that’s how it works! And he always works with this certain major media star in fact he only works for him! Look at the Vu meters on the desk! There are no lights showing and it’s giving this level. I think to myself that this system could deliver way better than last night if driven correctly. System owner joins in… These things just work you know! I don’t know how but they have that HK voodoo running through them! I realise that I am fighting a loosing battle and go off to chill before the gig. I arrive back at venue an hour before we are due on to prep our gear ready for a quick changeover. Including setting up the drum kit with our mics because the sound guys don’t have any. The system owner is on stage with his acoustic band. Its still a bit quiet at the entrance but as you get further in levels are fairly adequate for that sort of thing. The mix is quite good and the crowd are enjoying the entertainment. I notice that a couple of stacks of the original Elements rig have appeared to “augment” the main PA. One sub and two tops approx 10m either side of the main PA. Interesting! I go to check them out.
The excursion on those little 3? Inch drivers is quite alarming. I can clearly see them popping in and out as far as the suspension will allow in time to the slapped upright bass solo that is happening on stage! And they are making a lovely percussive clicking sound that I am sure doesn’t entirely originate from the slapped bass! Hmm! Changeover time and we get on and set up pretty quickly. I am now trapped at one end of the uncomfortably sloping stage. One of the main stacks approx 18inch from my right shoulder, drum kit to the left approx 18inch from the end of my bass, kit has a monitor in front so no easy way past it and it’s a long way to the ground. Engineer starts to line check. I hear the drums come up individually in the FoH and some eq going on till there is quite a good drum sound as far as I can tell. I start to think that engineer knows a bit more than I was crediting him with. He asks what I want in my monitor despite me going through it previously… Lots of my vox please, a bit of his and a bit of lead guitar. If I need anything else I’ll give you a shout after first song! First song and sound on stage is fekin awful the stack to my right is obviously being seriously spanked. There is a wash of sub over everything and I can just to say hear my harmony vox. We finish first song and I ask for more of my vox in the monitor. There is a short lived howl of feedback and then we get on with the set. I can now hear nothing from my mon and the on stage sound is just as bad as before. I can only imagine what the sound out front is like but the crowd seem to be loving it so we get through our set and give it the best we can while I just guess at singing in tune. When we finish the system owner rushes over and says… That was fantastic, you were setting car alarms off in the next car park! The headline band follow us and I hear the same bland sound as the night before except a bit louder. I ask my girlfriend… Did we sound as week as that? No, you were a lot heavier and a bit louder. It wasn’t great but it was ok! So, we get drunk and enjoy the band. Plenty of folks we never seen before come and tell us we were great a few of our regulars say it was a good gig but sound was poor and why didn’t we use our own PA? Next morning we go to collect our gear. The engineer is there on his own. I have a friendly chat with him… You know you really should consider investing in some outboard. It could make life a whole lot easier! He looks at me blankly for a moment then puts his head down and mumbles… The system wasn’t really bought for this kind of thing! Here endeth my ramble! Sorry, but it had to be told! |
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kevin tyler
Old Croc Joined: 15 April 2007 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 3402 |
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You can see why so many guys take iems everywhere, last half decent gig I did with my band, the stage was sloping, I had to do a 3 45 minutes solo elsewhere before two one hours with the band, so I missed the sound check, the engineer did the iem mix for me, I just wanted lead vocal backing vocal bit of guitar for the key notes, him knowing better, gave me bass, bass drum, congas, triangle,
Trying to stand up straight on a slope was exhausting, No business like show business |
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Generalhammond
Registered User Joined: 21 March 2011 Location: Shropshire Status: Offline Points: 371 |
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I played 4 gigs this weekend.
2 of which were at small festivals. One in a pub car park and one at a carnival. Both gigs the sound was terrible for us. 1st one was HK actor, 4 subs 2 tops thing. Engineer was running the PA from behind the stage! He wondered out front in the first song, decided the bass guitar needed to go up and then destroyed 2 of the subs by pushing it up too far. It was a complete mess. 2nd one I didnt get the chance to work out what it was. Some kinda modern looking thing probably doing about 2 K. The 'Sound guy' again working from behind us. Most of his cables didnt work. He couldnt seem to work out that there was no kick drum in the FOH but there was enough in the 2 tiny monitors to give us a nice distorted backing track to our set. ARE THERE NO MULTICORES LEFT IN THE UK? This kind of thing is happening all over the country every day of the week. Under spec'ed PA with under qualified well meaning people running them. Why? Well its all about price isnt it. The first gig was done on the cheap so they could raise money for charity. The second was a free local carnival run by well meaning people who have no idea about PA. Now, as someone who owns a PA and operates PA for other people all this really pisses me off! But, as a performer I just try and work with the guys doing it to get the best outcome. Turns out we had 2 great gigs with shocking sound. We've got over it and moved on. In the end there is nothing we can do about it other than offer advice which will end up in them paying more money next time.
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AJordan
Young Croc Joined: 06 July 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Oh I agree with what you say! And I would have loved the chance to work with him to improve the sound but his atitude of arrogance and ignorance was the real pisser! He carried on like he was the seasoned pro and I was some no nothing amateur, in complete denial of the problems and complete faith in his rig while spouting the bullshit of a typical disco dave! Whilst his rig was clearly not the sound god he imagined it to be it was also clearly capable of better than it was giving and it was so frustrating not being allowed to bring the best out of it. For the record this guy runs an apparently succesful AV company.
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kevin tyler
Old Croc Joined: 15 April 2007 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 3402 |
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I thought these mix from behind gigs would be ideal for the x32 dl1608 crowd?
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