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Measuring Scoop response.
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Pasi View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Joined: 25 April 2010
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Points: 2732 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2014 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

true, but then your get the x driver sounds better excuse.... maybe use the 1850 as standard driver...


Up to you guys. I would say use the driver what the box is designed for, just like in reflex or horn loaded cabinets. If someone prefers different sound, it doesn't change the measurement. This is all about what the line on the screen says, not how it sounds like as that is down to personal preferences and nothing can measure those.

Just raw responses, and everyone can draw their own conclusions from them with any refrerence to real application they may or may not have.
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bee View Drop Down
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Points: 4553 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2014 at 9:37pm
im cool with what ever people decide. but we would need a big venue with little reflections or an outdoor location.

Edited by bee - 16 June 2014 at 9:38pm
https://www.elements-audio.com
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TONY.A.S.S. View Drop Down
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Random Thoughts.

Outdoors would be fine but then dependent on weather.
Golden Palace can be hired, but costs £50-75. per hour depending on who's asking.
A cab in the middle of the floor wouldn't be so bad at GP due to the size of the room.
People will want to compare their own scoops with others, so what ever speaker is in the cab should be it.
Decide on the Amp to be used.
Not so critical as it will be a level playing field for all cabs.
No point in general pink noise across the range as it won't tell where the good bits are.
Mic at ear level as it's the only part of your body that will be listening. ( who's ear, you may ask).
Scoops of all sizes to be compared.
I guess a Sunday would be the best time.
Has anyone got a big garden facing a field?
My initial idea was a repeat of what I've done already, but a more comprehensive test would perhaps inform people why the cab performs the way it does.
If this does happen, and it's up to all interested parties to make it happen, there would have to be a cutoff date for people wanting to turn up, otherwise we will never finalise the testing date.
There's probably more,
I've got a couple of bottles of Scotch and a couple of JD I can throw in.
Perhaps at the end we could all have a Custard Pie fight.
http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3
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Points: 3600 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KidCreole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2014 at 11:56pm
Outside yours Tony?  I can supply the PG/milk and digestives?
Mykey Wattco
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Points: 10919 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2014 at 12:31am
Mic at ear level means it will not be comparable to other cab measurements though.
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bitSmasher View Drop Down
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Points: 2295 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bitSmasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2014 at 12:39am
That'd give a consistent null too, wouldn't it?
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TONY.A.S.S. View Drop Down
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Points: 6878 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TONY.A.S.S. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2014 at 12:42am
I have always favoured ear level mic because I think it's important  to relate to what we see in the measurements, and we only do that at ear level. The same as you would do at a Gig.
Don't forget, this is only supposed to be a comparison test with one cab against another. At the end of the day, that's what people ill want to know. Don't forget, we are talking about the Scoop Bin community.Smile


Edited by TONY.A.S.S. - 17 June 2014 at 12:43am
http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3
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Points: 10919 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2014 at 1:23am
Maybe, but would it not be better to do an inclusive event that gives measurements that are beneficial to everybody? Unity and all that
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Points: 937 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2014 at 2:27am
As a suggestion I think it would be better to use recommended drivers... Because different drivers produce different SPL's and different sound qualities in different boxes. But then at least you know if you pay £100 more for a driver and it produces more SPL and sounds better you know your paying for that difference. And the tests may well show that cheaper drivers produce better results in the better designed cabinet.. Just my two pence! Also the cabinet will perform as its designer aimed it to
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TONY.A.S.S. View Drop Down
Old Croc
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The original idea was to take the measurements one step further than the results that were seen on a previous Graph. People are to bring their cabs with the speaker that  they normally use. The cabs would be tested at 5hz intervals and SPL logged. range 20hz-120hz. Each cab done under identical conditions. Depending on how many cabs and time, other things can be done according to what equipment is available. I'm open to anything, as I'm sure everyone is.
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Pasi View Drop Down
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Points: 2732 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2014 at 7:23am
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

The original idea was to take the measurements one step further than the results that were seen on a previous Graph. People are to bring their cabs with the speaker that  they normally use. The cabs would be tested at 5hz intervals and SPL logged. range 20hz-120hz. Each cab done under identical conditions. Depending on how many cabs and time, other things can be done according to what equipment is available. I'm open to anything, as I'm sure everyone is.


Why not do it with pink noise which gives you the whole response and the SPL numbers? Depending on FFT size you get different resolutions, and for example in normal use i keep it at 0.34Hz or 0.17Hz. This way you can see all the differences in response and maybe see some things which will explain the different sound on different cabinets and drivers.
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audiomik View Drop Down
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Points: 2962 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote audiomik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2014 at 7:41am
would generally agree with Pasi's approach on this in terms of measurement methodology, but using say a minimum 500 line FFT analysis of a maximum of one decade (20 to 200Hz range?) tracked source then a single sweep can be undertaken to acquire:
Frequency Response
Distortion
Phase, both Acoustic and Electrical
Impedance ~ using a Current Probe and Constant Voltage drive or to fulfil provision of a suitable Test Amplifier:
http://www.bksv.com/products/transducers/acoustic/sound-sources/measurement-power-amplifier-2735?JsEnabled=0

Power Factor of the DUT
A four input analyser is easily capable of this.

Given this the testing time for each item is substantially reduced whilst all relevant parameters are acquired

Mik

Edit; add link to test amplifier


Edited by audiomik - 17 June 2014 at 8:46am
Warning! May contain Nuts
plus springs, washers, screws, etc, etc.
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