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luton_soundman View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Joined: 03 August 2010
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Points: 4539 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luton_soundman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2022 at 8:57pm
That aside, we used to own xb loaded double 18 reflex and also xb loaded scoops. The output of the scoops easily surpassed the doubles. 
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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Points: 1376 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2022 at 2:32pm
So, if thats true... how?

The 218 has twice the cone area, presumably displaces twice the volume of air... how can the efficiency of a horn *more* than compensate for all that extra energy? 

I always assumed they'd be much the same in spl but the idea that one wipes the floor with the other just seems hard to understand. 

I assume that to some extent the extra power and of the 218 is lost to producing the additional extention, but that doesnt really seem to account for all the supposed additional spl a scoop has.

Can someone explain whats happening to me please?
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fatfreddiescat View Drop Down
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Points: 1083 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatfreddiescat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2022 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

So, if thats true... how?

The 218 has twice the cone area, presumably displaces twice the volume of air... how can the efficiency of a horn *more* than compensate for all that extra energy? 

I always assumed they'd be much the same in spl but the idea that one wipes the floor with the other just seems hard to understand. 

I assume that to some extent the extra power and of the 218 is lost to producing the additional extention, but that doesnt really seem to account for all the supposed additional spl a scoop has.

Can someone explain whats happening to me please?


The horn acts as an acoustic transformer over a limited range, better coupling the cone to the air, more electrical energy is turned into acoustic energy, basically less power is wasted as heat in the voice coil.
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Matty309 View Drop Down
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Points: 116 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matty309 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2022 at 6:08pm
There's no way 4 scoops wiped the floor with 12 double 18s. 

My single double 18 is noticeably louder and deeper than a void loaded hog so I'm not sure what you were using, sounds rather unrealistic to me.
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Matty309 View Drop Down
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Points: 116 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matty309 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2022 at 6:10pm
Exactly, the efficiency of a reflex is less than a horn/scoop. But you have an additional driver to gain 3db, and then another 3db for double the power handling. All of that in a smaller enclosure with better bandwidth.
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bob4 View Drop Down
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Points: 1843 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2022 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by Matty309 Matty309 wrote:

There's no way 4 scoops wiped the floor with 12 double 18s.

Not 12 doubles, 12 DRIVERS

Originally posted by luton_soundman luton_soundman wrote:

4 of my scoops destroy 12 high power 18s in reflex cabs designed for them 


Edited by bob4 - 07 August 2022 at 9:47pm
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Matty309 View Drop Down
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Points: 116 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matty309 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2022 at 10:06pm
Ah I see. Has anyone done actual head to head measurements? 
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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Points: 1376 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2022 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by fatfreddiescat fatfreddiescat wrote:

Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

So, if thats true... how?

The 218 has twice the cone area, presumably displaces twice the volume of air... how can the efficiency of a horn *more* than compensate for all that extra energy? 

I always assumed they'd be much the same in spl but the idea that one wipes the floor with the other just seems hard to understand. 

I assume that to some extent the extra power and of the 218 is lost to producing the additional extention, but that doesnt really seem to account for all the supposed additional spl a scoop has.

Can someone explain whats happening to me please?


The horn acts as an acoustic transformer over a limited range, better coupling the cone to the air, more electrical energy is turned into acoustic energy, basically less power is wasted as heat in the voice coil.

Is that it?

The standard coupling of a driver to the air must be pretty shocking for that to be the whole story?
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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Points: 1376 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2022 at 11:04pm
Originally posted by Matty309 Matty309 wrote:

Ah I see. Has anyone done actual head to head measurements? 

This is the post i was referring to earlier. Read the whole thread for info on the q18 they were using to compare
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Points: 10919 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2022 at 11:05pm
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:


Is that it?

The standard coupling of a driver to the air must be pretty shocking for that to be the whole story?


A ported enclosure typically has an efficiency range of 0.05 to 3%.
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luton_soundman View Drop Down
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Points: 4539 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luton_soundman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2022 at 8:39am
This is the problem with sp. No matter what you do or how many hundreds are there to witness who share the same opinion those who wernt there will say it didnt happenThumbs Down
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luton_soundman View Drop Down
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Points: 4539 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luton_soundman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2022 at 8:41am
https://forum.speakerplans.com/soundsystem-soundoff_topic84163_page11.html
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