21'' HOG SCOOP desing help |
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nickyburnell
Old Croc Joined: 06 February 2005 Status: Offline Points: 4410 |
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Where did I say it was a hybrid? |
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It's everything, not everythink!
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luton_soundman
Old Croc Joined: 03 August 2010 Location: Bedfordshire Status: Offline Points: 4538 |
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[/QUOTE] , agree here Nick, it's all down to tuning and taste; I prefer to use a few more bass cabs than some and play them within their range instead of thrashing them. Hogs are hybrids and like Nick's said, should not be compared to scoops. [/QUOTE] My bad it was ape who said it. Apologies |
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Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment.
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nickyburnell
Old Croc Joined: 06 February 2005 Status: Offline Points: 4410 |
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It's everything, not everythink!
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tv00
Old Croc Joined: 10 August 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1886 |
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Scoop discussions, LOL!
I'd say both are kind of hybrids as they have a combined response from horn & cone. Hogs can also be modelled as tapped horns. Scoops can be made "hog tapped horns" if placed in v-formation or at an angle up against a wall, this extends lowend considerably, but no one one here seems to care much about that magic. But I'm happy to see a lot of people started playing around with mouth extensions. V-formation don't really need no plates if it's tall enough |
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TOM_50
New Member Joined: 10 February 2017 Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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I'd like to make something similar. Did you get good result?
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LeruSound
Registered User Joined: 27 August 2015 Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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I totally agree with you. Hogs scoops sound really different to a conventional scoop.. Considering there's a lot happening in the firsts 3 meters in pressure fronts. We can also say that hog scoop is "bigh mouth kinda tapped horn", not that closed to a conv scoops.. I really listened lot of scoops and hogs, ran from both good and poor soun-op... I really cant see the point of this much critics on hogs scoops, them are a very good overall design (5 pages in this topic just about hog), always been a little subbier than scoops. Front radiation is compromised in hog: low bass fwd emission (for what the fwd loading is capable) summed to horn emission, is giving good sensitivity & throw, cutting out lot of shape, but gaining lot of bass body. Edited by LeruSound - 19 January 2018 at 8:52pm |
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turbo7
Registered User Joined: 15 March 2009 Status: Offline Points: 233 |
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I would like to see a 21" transmission line style scoopS1=1400 S3=4200 exp=2,23m, 70 liter chamber, should be really hifi sounding and very round sound - the energy splits into a wide bandwith of frequency not of amplitude peaks ! Much more what i consider of when chosing a design. Its low sensivity but broad bandwith, and 21" never sound weak in general :-) Check Dandelion sound subbass out for inspiration ! The best way of loading a 21" scoop/transmissionline imo. Real strenght is bandwith in this case.
In theory, the 21" scoop with pd2150 is a very weak design ! Much too big for the spl it produces. Here in grey is a stack of 4 pd2150 scoops. Black line represents 2x 2x18" Bandpass subs with just 358L per unit, with the 18DS115. 4 drivers vs 4 drivers ! 18" vs 21".... that is 2230 Liters ( grey ) vs. 716 Liters ( Black ) ! Here is 4x 18DS115 scoops in black vs. 4xPD2150 scoops in grey: The 18" scoops eat the 21" alive... Here is 18DS115 in a shorter chamber than above vs. 2150 Hog style, both 1000W input, both eq and Filter applied to 14mm excursion, 10,5mm respectively. Of course, the 18" would have bit more power compression that would need to be shaved off. 512Lx4 = 2048 L, 766Lx4 = 3064L Make your own mind about it black ds, grey pd2150 Edited by turbo7 - 21 January 2018 at 9:44pm |
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gen0me
Young Croc Joined: 20 February 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 999 |
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Impulses?
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levyte357-
Old Croc Joined: 27 July 2012 Location: UK, South East Status: Offline Points: 8128 |
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On SP, people really must stop relying on HR "SIMS", as gospel and reality.
SP'ers, who like to trust in sims, need to get away from your chair, and "Warrior" keyboard, and out to Reggae gigs, where Scoops are being used. Typically, to judge response, SPL, performance of Scoops, you need to hear them. Then you are qualified to form your "own" opinion of systems, you have heard. People here keep crying for 1W/1M response plots of Scoops, and don't realise that realistically tells you nothing, about how two stacks of 4x Scoops will perform in a huge venue, dependant on:
Edited by levyte357- - 22 January 2018 at 10:45am |
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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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levyte357-
Old Croc Joined: 27 July 2012 Location: UK, South East Status: Offline Points: 8128 |
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I know a few sound system crews, who bought cabs, based on sims and 1W/1M charts, and demos of 1x cab in workshop, where sim/plot promised response flat down to 30Hz, from 1x cab.
Then in reality, 4x cabs in a stack failed to hit below 50hz, at high power. Trying to extract more, resulted in driver failure. So keep your sims and 1W/1M charts, I'll use my "ears", to compare cab combinations, when at gigs. For my personal testing, I'll use Sig gens/Music with spectrum analysers, to estimate cab usable sub range.. Edited by levyte357- - 22 January 2018 at 10:53am |
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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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Tonskulus
Registered User Joined: 15 September 2017 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 425 |
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X1's are prone for driver failures, according to rumors.. |
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turbo7
Registered User Joined: 15 March 2009 Status: Offline Points: 233 |
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I have built and sold around 100x18" scoops so far, 5 different designs, many different drivers. i have always made my prototypes according to sims with different software and of course a lot relies on the cooling system and BL behaviour how a scoop "sounds" and which SPL it produces. Nonlinear parameters ! Still, i see so many people talking and talking - i make a step to my cnc and just cut a prototype...
In reality, the PD2150 will be close to the output of the 18DS115, due to way less PC. Most of the time sims are very accurate, of course there is a lot more to it, but gets one in the right direction. I dont take sims as the holy grail ! But my experience with all bespoken scoop drivers is always the same. I am always right, i was right years ago with the 9600 ( i built the FIRST scoop with it )the 9600 was mashed down by the "keyboard warriors", took a few years for them to realise that their PD and turbomax game has changed. For given Volume, a scoop like cabinet with PD2150 is just an average design. But with nice sound characteristics !Check it in reality - if it is not enough go for stronger drivers.. Edited by turbo7 - 22 January 2018 at 12:43pm |
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