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PKN XE6000 AMP?

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Earplug View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2016 at 11:41am
Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:

Originally posted by Andy Kos Andy Kos wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Why dont you go for the XD10000 then? Plenty of power.



Because they are like rocking horse poo.


XE10000 is useful if you have over 2000W / 8Ohm load, >4KW / 4Ohm, >6KW /2.6Ohm... It is very, very few large speakers what have such real power capacity. Most of the speakers melted above 6-800W thermal power. Do not believe their marketing crap. 2000W / 8Ohm speakers rated with pretty narrow duty cycles...Just read the physics behind AES ratings! So the XE6000 is ok for almost anything.


+1

Most speaker power specs are like amp power specs we get these days - narrow pulsed waves. Nothing to do with the full range RMS specs we used to get.




Edited by Earplug - 06 January 2016 at 11:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2016 at 12:07pm
What is music though? Is it perhaps a peak based medium?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2016 at 12:21pm
Yes, but quoting pulsed specs at 1kHz doesn´t tell you how the amp/speaker will work at the bass end, which is where you have the most stress and judging from the posts we get here, is what interests most people. It also causes a lot of confusion, eg the question above.

Trying to make sense of all the inflated specs is a big pita.  Ouch


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2016 at 2:09pm
Driving 1700w speakers with 1800W amp give you exactly ZERO headroom.
More powerfull amos like the XD/XE10000 are for having the headroom and not to worry of losing the dynamics. Not to push every last watt to the speaker.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2016 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Driving 1700w speakers with 1800W amp give you exactly ZERO headroom.
More powerfull amos like the XD/XE10000 are for having the headroom and not to worry of losing the dynamics. Not to push every last watt to the speaker.


sorry to be pedantic but headroom is the difference between the average level and the max output of the system. there is no need to put an average of 1700W into a speaker just because it is rated at 1700W and no need to have amps twice the rating of the speakers - if you have plenty of speakers and amps you can still operate with plenty of headroom in the system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2016 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by snowflake snowflake wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Driving 1700w speakers with 1800W amp give you exactly ZERO headroom.
More powerfull amos like the XD/XE10000 are for having the headroom and not to worry of losing the dynamics. Not to push every last watt to the speaker.


sorry to be pedantic but headroom is the difference between the average level and the max output of the system. there is no need to put an average of 1700W into a speaker just because it is rated at 1700W and no need to have amps twice the rating of the speakers - if you have plenty of speakers and amps you can still operate with plenty of headroom in the system.


Yes - and never mind overheating the drivers and losing any benefit of those bigger amps/speakers through thermal compression. The law of diminishing returns. A lot better to take more speakers and drive them within sensible  limits.

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/pwr-vs-eff.htm



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2016 at 8:37pm
Yeah never mind that peak or program ratings have been used and are recommended by nearly everyone. Much better to just fill another truck with more boxes and never ever allow peaks...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2016 at 8:48pm
Yeah add 24 more boxes to add 3db to the bass ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tv00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2016 at 11:54pm
Talking about my system?
Well I do have 24 boxes, I just thought buying new amps would be a more lightweight solution than building 24 more boxes, and cheaper:-) The primary goal is actúally not +3db, but headroom, stabiltiy & dsp making it easier to use tops / subs separately.

I mean the digam 7000s are ok, and can be expected to deliver around 5000W (total) at 2,6 ohms per channel, a lab20000q can give around the double, 10kw per channelset (2 channels / one side of subs = drives 12 subs = 2 lab20000s needed = 24 subs = +3db :-)

So this is why I keep asking around if the labs are bad for bass or not?
I also considered pkn, but the price is likely to be more than 6000£ for 4 channels at 5000W rms @ 2,67 ohms. 2 lab 20000q are £6000 and can resell at a good price, I doubt pkns can!

Drivers are rated 1500W each, so that's 4500W rms or 9000W program per channel at 3,67 ohms, I think 5000W amp power should be sufficient, no one managed to hit any top LEDs on the digam 7000 running approx 2500W@2,67ohms. Even though that's less than a THIRD of program power.


Edited by tv00 - 06 January 2016 at 11:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2016 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Yeah never mind that peak or program ratings have been used and are recommended by nearly everyone. Much better to just fill another truck with more boxes and never ever allow peaks...


Yes, tell that to the producers who compress the hell out of everything - and then add a dumb dj to the mix as well and you´re fücked. And btw, how many speakers do you go through each year?  LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2016 at 2:22pm
Very few actually. Because we do both - provide plenty of rig AND plenty of voltage headroom. Rather than tarring every act, DJ or live, with the same 'you're shit' brush.

It winds me up that people take that attitude, if you hate the source material so much and just can't be arsed doing the best job possible then don't take the business.

Edited by toastyghost - 07 January 2016 at 2:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartan Audio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2016 at 7:18pm
Cannot remember the last time I blew a speaker. I was probably legally a child I can tell you that. Amp headroom is king. Pile that shit up.
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