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This Sub amp could be back in business...

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turbo7 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 March 2016 at 5:50pm
Hey, 

since the Void heavyweights are not longer into production, a lot of people struggle to find high quality Sub Bass amplifiers. I came across the Kind XT-4000, a dual mono monster with 2 mains plugs, class H. It has been into production for 10 years since 1996 i guess... 

i have tested this amplifier against a lot of heavy/leightweights ( Infinite mk2, lab copys etc. ) and it was always on top, not only in pressure coming from the bins ( 4x Scoops 18nlw9600 ) but in SOUND. It has the most beautiful low notes i have ever heard in the last 15 years. In fact, it was that lovely that i bought some old used ones and made contact with Kind. 

We talked and an idea is, to bring back a new 2016 color series of this amplifier, a batch of 50 pieces, IF there are people around who are interested. 

Here is a picture of the XT-2000, the small brother of the XT-4000, they all are double mono class H:



they are built in italy and would not cost a fortune ! 

Please tell me if you are interested to get one or more of 50 of the best sub amps ever..

Edit: http://kindaudio.com/index.php/products/installed-sound/xt-series




Edited by turbo7 - 07 March 2016 at 6:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lickweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2016 at 7:16pm
Good amps,they are not budget option,but well worth the price
Got KQX28.4,sounds better then quite a few i got in warehouse on midtop duty.
Not very common in uk and in general.
I might be intrested in some lightweights

http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kedwardsleisure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2016 at 8:22pm
I had one of those in for repair just before christmas, first one I'd seen. I expected a chinese interior but was surprised at the european quality.
Kevin

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KidCreole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2016 at 12:52am
Try a Camco DX48 up against it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turbo7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2016 at 8:59am
i would like to make clear that i am in now way related to the company Kind. 

I would just love to have some new ones, mine is from 1999 and i am feeling more comfortable to have not so worn out amps, that is all. That is why i was asking them to bring a batch IF there are any more people interested. 

I have postet this here, because i think this amp makes a lot of sense in my eyes for 13A mains plugs. 

This is a unique amplifier and it sounds too good and has too much power to be not manufactured anymore. I know that they are totally unknown in UK, in germany they gained very good reputation and it is funny that i can not find any amplifier after 20 years to give the same performance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2016 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by turbo7 turbo7 wrote:


This is a unique amplifier and it sounds too good and has too much power to be not manufactured anymore. I know that they are totally unknown in UK, in germany they gained very good reputation and it is funny that i can not find any amplifier after 20 years to give the same performance.


A used Crown MA 5000/02vz can be easily found that offers the same power. I am uncertain why you would consider the Kind Amplifier unique when there are Crown, Crest & QSC amplifiers that will offer the same power.

Best Regards, 



Edited by Elliot Thompson - 08 March 2016 at 2:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turbo7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2016 at 3:04pm
i have of course heard all crowns and many other amps. They do not have the output AND soundquality the Kind is giving away and they are all OLD. That is my main problem. You can change caps of course, but still it remains an used amplifier which was probably working for years everyday in an installation. 

They do have the very big advantage of a double mono design, means there are 2 individual amplifiers in one, and if something is going wrong, one side is likely to play still. They can take 2x 13A plugs instead of one. They are unique, i have not seen an amplifier like this, despite the Chevin A6000 ( smps ) and the FFA class D amplifiers with 2 mains connectors, but no amplifier i have heard is capable of that extreme impulse power - its no joke... i do not make any business - i just want new ones and it is only possible when there is certain interest in this amp. Thats all ! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2016 at 4:04pm

I would imagine you fall into the category as a few here. You heard other amplifiers on other systems than yours and left an impression not to your liking. Generally not the best ways to make a comparison as you are at the mercy of the system operator. Sound is subjective which differs from person to person.

 

I did download the thermal draw and current dissipation and, I don’t see an edge the Kind offers over the Crown, Crest & QSC amplifiers that fall within the 5000 watts minimum range. 

 

The Crown MA 5000/02 vz is a Dual Mono and could use separate power cords if need be per power transformer. The QSC PFC PL 6.0 offers a power factor correction circuitry. The Crest (9001) is the only one that offers a single Power Transformer however, it is oversized (hence  weighing the most) so again, I don’t see anything unique about the Kind XT 4000. 

 

The Kind XT 4000 is just as old as the amplifiers I mentioned which, makes XT 4000 outdated under today’s requirements. I am not knocking the Kind XT 4000. I am just trying to see what is so unique about this amplifier that was not introduced 25 years ago by other manufactures.

 

Best Regards,



Edited by Elliot Thompson - 08 March 2016 at 4:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turbo7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2016 at 11:05pm
First, i have nearly given up with all this. By now there would be only 10 amps to be bought from people, that is a bit less to make a new production run, but it is nice anyway to talk about amplifiers. 

and to be honest, i should have posted this in some kind of reggae section here LOL

then i would like to enter your interesting comparisons. All amplifiers you mentioned are of course very high profile subbass amplifiers. I did not have a PL.6 or Crest 9001 to compare the Kind with. But i do well know the Crown f.ex., tested on my own speakers which i built and designed. What was fun at the beginning of all amplifier tests, turned out to be a bit irritating in the end. Lots of smp and torrodial transformer amps, like the big Matrix, pkn 6000, void infinite 8mk2 andmoretested and every amp has clearly shown weakness in price, weight, sound, power, stability, etc. I do not base any statement about performance of an amplifier which i heard somewhere... That is of course not the case, so you are free to put me in another category if you prefer. 

And thank you for enlighten me about the double mono design of the Crown ! I did not realise that, now my thoughts about this are

What if you like those amplifiers more than a china amp or a 8000,- amplifier which beats the ones above. 

Can we say that todays smp amplifiers will still run after 20 years of everyday work  

I make a comparsion of Pl. 6.0 PFC on a 13A plug vs. Kind on 2x13A plug. 

The PFC is of course a good thing, and lets say it has a factor of 0.98. It will run cool and is of course more efficient overall than an amplifier without this "circuit". But if you have the double of power to suck out of the net, it will hardly be an advantage. If we put 3 drivers per side on a pl 6.0 and a Kind, off 13A plugs, and play heavy Crest material through it, even with a power factor of 0.98 it will be not giving the same output or trip a breaker. 

If your argument is, the vz5000 can have 2 power plugs, then my argument is, the kind could also have a PFC circuit. 

But you are right, its not a unique amp after all. To me it has unique features which i would love to have newer than 18 years old. 

A new Kind amp would have proven, that it will run 18 or 20 years and still sells for the half of its price. It also would have 3 years guarantee. It would cost way under 2k pounds, new. it would be labeled as 2016 version. 

Where can someone find one or more pl 9.0 or VZ or 9001 in very good condition nowadays ? And at what price, no guarantee, no knowledge of the component condition. 

To me, this would be a very good long term investment for small money and big performance. It is a pity that we can only talk in theory, that makes it difficult to me and to everyone because i am the only one here who actually heard it. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2016 at 11:16pm
i can confirm Kind amps are definately quality stuff. Over here in the netherlands the lighter ones were for some time rather popular for installs because they were a lot cheaper as dynacord but just as sturdy.

I also applaud your idea. Funny thing is everybody over here is creative as heck but talkshow about amps like buying a car.. Yes a ford transit connect Will get you everywhere but it might be more fun when you use a fiat multipla ..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dub Specialist Sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2016 at 11:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2016 at 7:40am
"Can we say that todays smp amplifiers will still run after 20 years of everyday work"

Yes, we can. There is nothing inherently unreliable with a well designed switch mode supply compared with a conventional one. The oldest amp i currently have in an installation was manufacturered in 1993 and has NEVER been out of service other than on-site cleaning.  

The Kind amps do look very nice quality and i have seen a few around over the years, but personally the age of moving heavy amps around has passed.
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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