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This Sub amp could be back in business... |
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turbo7 
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Joined: 15 March 2009 Status: Offline Points: 233 |
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 Posted: 09 March 2016 at 10:35am |
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how much does an equal in quality and output, lightweight alternative cost. This amp is not extremely heavy, weighing 31kg which is something but still less than other torrodial amps.
Good to hear that some lightweight amps prove long term stability ! Dont get me wrong, i would love to find an amplifier which is 10kg, high quality, low price, and makes the sound and output i am looking for But which one ?? I did not find anything and we shipped a lot of demo models around the world. In the end it was irritating But the fact that exactly 0 people on here wrote me a PM ( different at other places tho ) is a clear sign that nobody needs / wants them anymore. What is funny to me that i know exactly 0 people who run their reggae/dub systems with lightweight amps. Ok, wait, i know one, but its not that good lol |
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Elliot Thompson
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Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5175 |
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Posted: 09 March 2016 at 2:00pm |
I am uncertain why you feel operating Reggae Sound System requires you to seek something completely different. In the 1990s when heavy amplifiers were the standard Reggae Sound Systems used Crown MA 5000 vz and Crest 9001 for Bass. As those amplifiers have already made their mark as an excellent amplifier for Bass from sound systems residing in the States, Canada, Jamaica in addition to the UK, if someone was looking for an old heavy amplifier those two would be first choice. There was more leniency to QSC in Jamaica as they consume less current than Crown & Crest but, the larger sound systems always sported Crown. Today in the Reggae Sound System world it is Powersoft K10, K20 Lab Gruppen PLM 14000, 10000, in addition to PLM 9000. I am not sure how things are in your area but, Kind Amplifiers are not popular enough from a global standpoint to be looked upon as an alternative if someone was seeking an old heavy amplifier for bass in the world of Reggae. The Reggae Soundman will reach faster for a used Crown MA 5000vz and/or Crest 9001 than a Kind XT 4000. Best Regards, Edited by Elliot Thompson - 09 March 2016 at 2:01pm |
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Elliot Thompson
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rish
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Joined: 18 June 2008 Location: Durban Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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Posted: 09 March 2016 at 2:18pm |
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Looking at the pics, it seems the Kind amp is of decent build, but more important to me is the fact that in a few years time should I decide to sell the amp, I will probably get more money back on a Crest or Macrotech than the Kind amplifier. its probably this reason as to why you did not get much response on purchasing these amps. I for one do not believe name brand stuff is the best, but when you run a business, you got to get equipment that makes business sense. I am based in South Africa and while we have a very good entertainment industry, people who hires us want to see name brand stuff ie Crown, Shure , JBL/Nexo etc. I literally can charge almost double for events using name brand stuff as " it makes you look professional". I probably can do the same job using a cheaper rig but Looks are everything and therefore coming back to what I said early, it is on this note that it will be easier to sell kit later on and get a decent price for it as well. Rish
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turbo7
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Posted: 09 March 2016 at 2:49pm |
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Hey Elliot
 i do really agree with your statements. I am uncertain why you feel operating Reggae Sound System requires you to seek something completely different. I guess a Reggae sound is seeking for an amplifier which does perform and is attractive in price and quality. The only reason why i posted this here for you UK people is the 2x mains plug, knowing that you have mostly 13A available. I am aware of the fact that these amps are totally unknown to you all, it is different here. Today in the Reggae Sound System world it is Powersoft K10, K20 Lab Gruppen PLM 14000, 10000, in addition to PLM 9000. Why did K10 f. ex. fail in A/B Test against Infinite 8mk2 ? to me it was clear what sound better. It has something like a built in 50hz HP filter in it lol. WHAT DOES THIS AMP COST AND HOW DOES IT PERFORM IN 20 YEARS. Imagine how much weed you have to sell to buy one  All amplifiers you mentioned are far far more expensive than the Kind amp. All those amplifiers have no edge at all in performance on a single 13A plug I really think that the majority of reggae sounds, even in UK, still buy used crown crest china lab copies than original powersoft, LAB etc. simply because these amps are too expensive Also, there is no need to have a brand on your amps at all, no technical riders present - i know sounds which would prefer unlabelled equipment over a powersoft f. ex. And in tone, there is no way to compare all those originals and copies to the Kind amp, thats my experience. In my eyes, there is no other way to get a very high standard very good performing and versatile amplifier with 3 years of guarantee for this price on this planet. I just dont find anything... and like i said, i wish i would find a lightweight for reasonable price and quality who "does it" like this amp. the weight is 31kg. It is therefore much lighter than other heavyweight amps It happened just now, there is interest in one amp hehe. we need 13 more pieces to be safely paid to make it real. Any install someone has to make ?! Perfect choice...  |
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turbo7
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Posted: 09 March 2016 at 3:18pm |
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resale price for used xt-4000 is 1000,-, 15+ years old...at least in germany
rish, i know what you are talking about, thats why i should have posted this on reggae forum, where there is no such things like brands to be important to play out or not.
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Elliot Thompson
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Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5175 |
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Posted: 09 March 2016 at 6:16pm |
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I would suggest getting a better understanding between burst rated power (Powersoft) and continuous average power (Void) for they are not going to be the same from a performance factor. All amplifiers can breakdown. There was a
Void Infinite 8v2 shipped to the States to be compared to other amplifiers
which arrived dead on arrival. A Professional will not look at this as poor
product. They will take into consideration how the amplifier was transported
from the One must take heed of the cheapskate mentality when buying amplifiers. If your main objective is cost, you may find yourself short changed in the long run. Cheap amplifiers are short-term investments. They are not something you can guarantee will last for 20 years. Some manufactures will offer a standard and extended warranty if you buy an amplifier brand new. Manufactures that do not offer amplifiers with such an option are the amplifiers you try to make the greatest amount of profit (the amplifier pays for itself plus profit) before the warranty expires or the amplifier fails (Whichever comes first). You cannot have a cheapskate mentality and worry if the amplifier will function properly 20 years later. You are either a Hobbyist or a Professional. Hobbyists are not concerned if the amplifier is going to work 20 years from purchase since logically, the amplifier should have paid itself back within 2 years because it was so cheap to begin with. They just need something immediately due to lack of patience. Amplifiers you invest in are expected to last longer in which, the manufacture will stand by their product. This usually means you have to save (Saving has truly turned into a forgotten art) money in order to buy the particular amplifier in question. It may take you 6 months to a 1 year to buy the amplifier. If I did not have that same frame of thought, I would have never purchased my first (out of six) Macro-tech 5000vz Amplifier(s) in 1995. It is not unusual for an amplifier you invest in to offer manufacture support 20 years later. However, a cheap amplifier may offer 2 years of customer support at best. That is one of the reasons why many invest in amplifiers…service & support. Technically, manufactures will discontinue a product due to faulty issues that are accumulating to a great extent or lack of sales. If the Kind XT 4000 is as good as you claim it is then lack of sales made the manufacture discontinue that model. Best Regards, Edited by Elliot Thompson - 09 March 2016 at 6:16pm |
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Elliot Thompson
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jblfreak
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Posted: 09 March 2016 at 8:45pm |
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They all should work unless bad, lead-free solder joints kill them, or some unobtainium DSP chip dies
 Otherwise they should run 20+ years with no probs. Edited by jblfreak - 09 March 2016 at 8:45pm |
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turbo7
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Posted: 10 March 2016 at 1:22pm |
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Elliot, i do absolutely agree with what you are saying. Maybe my english is too bad to get my point across.
I do understand very well the difference between peak and program and rms etc., i studied electrical engineering on university so i am aware of that all. the problem i have with expensive amps: For me, this is all totally out of balance. For the price of a Lab / Powersoft, i am getting a complete surround sound hifi system incl. amplifier + a decent car built around it. No matter where the reasons are for this, i am not stupid enough to safe money for a small 10kg amplifier for hobby applications ! When buying the Kind amp i know that it is reliable ( because proven ), its not expensive, it makes what i want, and i fade out the weight of 31kg. My only aim is to buy quality, like i said i dont need this amplifier for everyday business, this would be an ideal choice for hobbiest who is looking for quality components and a versatile sub bass solution. I dont care about amplifiers which cost more than the double and do not give me better performance. I have read the LAB 14k marketing paper and all i can see is number hunting. It draws 90A peak. haha. Cool ! Why is it not superior in subbass then on EVERY application ? It must be totally shame the Kind amp but it does in no way... Of course a professional can not buy this Kind amplifier today. That is no question at all. A company needs to get clients. But this here is speakerplans forum, a forum for not only professionals, also for hobbyist, and for those people this makes a lot of sense to buy this amp. Professionals do not need to cope with 13A plugs at all, and when there is not more present, the job is very small and still perfect with any amplifier. But a Reggae Dub sound hast to look what can an amplifier do on 4 scoops and does it catch fire, is it more expensive than the whole other stuff around it. Every amp can break down, of course, i have seen damaged voids, crowns and crests, also damaged kind amps. After all its a electronic product
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ape3435
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Joined: 23 August 2009 Status: Offline Points: 552 |
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Posted: 10 March 2016 at 5:37pm |
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Well put mate
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King Simeon
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Joined: 13 January 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 788 |
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Posted: 10 March 2016 at 7:21pm |
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"I really think that the majority of reggae sounds, even in UK, still buy used crown crest china lab copies than original powersoft, LAB etc. simply because these amps are too expensive"
Your a little out of the loop i'm afraid. A lot of sounds in UK have invested in Powersoft amps. I would prefer it if more were listening to the actual sound of the bass. Speaking specifically of the Roots/Dub sounds. When the amps pushed they appear to play the same note and whether it's a live bass guitar or a digital /sine wav… it sounds the same. That's my ears and my personal opinion, but I think people will figure it out in time.
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https://soundcloud.com/king-simeon |
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C-Audiofreak
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Joined: 12 June 2014 Location: Norfolk uk Status: Offline Points: 467 |
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Posted: 12 March 2016 at 8:51pm |
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The c-audio sr808 was dual mono and had two mains leads with a pair of transformers inside it but are rare as rocking horse shit
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Elliot Thompson
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Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5175 |
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Posted: 14 March 2016 at 12:41pm |
If all you are using is four boxes then, you cannot expect a lot of users to find what you are doing equal to what they are doing when a lot of users around the globe are toting 8, 12, 18, and/or 24 Scoops for bass on a regular bases. I am not going to get into the whole Scoop thing for many on this board know I don’t fancy Scoops. However, from a Reggae Sound system standpoint, you have been misled if you think four boxes for bass would be considered a sound system in the eyes of many Reggae Sound systems across the globe. Historically, Reggae Sound Systems are known for being extremely large in size. You have a very small sound system and I can understand you are aiming for the best sound quality possible with what you have. At the same token, guys that are larger than you are also aiming for the same thing and will take all the boxes in the equation they are using for bass per column. So it is a matter of selecting what works best for you, not what everyone else is using which is quite understandable. In the case of the larger sound system owners, the Powersofts, Lab Gruppens and so forth works well for their needs as they have already experienced amplifiers that offer the same amount of power the Kind Amplifier you fancy delivers and found the Powersofts & Lab Gruppens do a better job for their requirements. Best Regards, Edited by Elliot Thompson - 14 March 2016 at 12:50pm |
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Elliot Thompson
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turbo7 wrote: