Powersoft X4 real power |
Post Reply | Page <1 1718192021 24> |
Author | ||
Elliot Thompson
Old Croc Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5174 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
With loudspeakers it is about understanding the TS Parameters and how they will interact in the enclosure. Amplifiers delivering 1000 watts continuous have been around since the 1990's. Possibly the root of the problem is trying to extract too much power out the least amount of boxes hence, ending up with burnt voice coils. Best Regards,
|
||
Elliot Thompson
|
||
Jhodas
Young Croc Joined: 04 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
This is the single most informed post here IMHO. Class Ds do all sorts of wizardry, but missing fundamentals isn't part of it. Numbers tell part of the story. Standing in front of a trio of obertons that are literally shaking the water in your bottle and making the beer in your stomach fizz forcing you to burp, well that's the other part. Anyone with any doubt about powersoft's power output, go catch Iration or Word Sound and Power. Both have a brace of X8s in their racks. Robert Tribulation made his CD player skip once. You need more than a 10ms burst to do that.
|
||
Until the Lions have their own historians, tales of hunting will always glorify the hunter.
|
||
Sinai Sound
Young Croc Joined: 09 November 2009 Location: Sheffield Status: Offline Points: 631 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I've got an 2 x X8 and a 1 x X4 6 x PD1852 scoops managed to dislodged lights out of a roof in a pretty damned big venue in Spain
|
||
cgengineering
New Member Joined: 26 July 2019 Status: Offline Points: 2 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Hi Viktor,
Did you consider all the capacitors in the amp and compared the rail voltages to the effective voltage needed to bring 5200W on 2ohms? The energy delta is very high: increasing rail voltages you have a quadratic energy rise. The power supply, due to its PFC behaviour, can't react before one mains cycle or so, and when reacts it can bring a lot a power more than its thermal limit
They are designed for music over loudspeakers, not sine waves over resistors Have a good one C.
|
||
U.Viktor
Young Croc Joined: 04 May 2010 Status: Offline Points: 716 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Powersoft X4 has 56pcs 1000uF 160VDC Electrolyte capacitors inside. Total possible stored energy is: E = 0.5 * C * U^2 so E = 0.5 * 0.056F * 160V^2 == 716.8J ( due to the typical charge distribution of real electrolyte capacitors this value can be +/- 10-20%.. different) So without power supply, neglecting losses P = E / t = 716.8J / 1s = 716.8W is the deliverable power until caps fully discharged. for 0.1s (100ms) it would be = 7168W while for 0.05s (50ms | Exact 1 period of single 20Hz signal) P = 14336W However these would mean that the capacitor bank is fully discharged, which condition is a kind of total useless for an audio amplifier :-) Let us define a starting Voltage level prior loading U1, where the Enegry stored is E1 and then a discharged state of U2 with E2 stored energy where the available power is 50% of the rated. It would mean that U1= 160VDC U2= 113VDC So delta E i= E1 - E2 We already know that E1 is 716.8J then calculated E2 = 0.5 * 0.056F * 113V^2 = 357.5J delta E = E1 - E2 = 716.8J - 357.5J = 359.3J delta E is 359.3J only what would mean : 359.3W support for the weak power supply for 1 second duration 3593W support for the weak power supply for 0.1 second duration 7168W support for the weak power supply for 0.05 second duration It is not miracle just very simple physics, do not believe marketing lies. We were not able to measure its rated specs, nowhere near.. Not a surprise! So delivering 20KW would be possible (optimal calculations˘neglecting all the conversion losses ) for 5-6ms only then the amp collapses immediately. |
||
BJtheDJ
Young Croc Joined: 28 November 2012 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 886 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
What next?? You're going to tell us that it's impossible for Bumble Bees to fly, and prove it mathematically ??
Edited by BJtheDJ - 04 September 2019 at 4:51pm |
||
It's a difficult choice, would you rather have:
A: A vegan son. B: An OnlyFans daughter |
||
toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Thanks, can you now show the measurements from a PKN 3PHASE or H8?
|
||
MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Look, a unicorn! :)
|
||
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
||
Tonskulus
Registered User Joined: 15 September 2017 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 425 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Some of us are thinking rms means continuous power, but who said so? RMS rating can be 10ms sine wave burst or 5 minutes continuous. Peak power is usually "square wave" output, calculated from maximum peak voltage which is 1.41 x RMS voltage. Edited by Tonskulus - 06 September 2019 at 6:15am |
||
JonB67
Young Croc Joined: 22 April 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1376 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
So is this a realistic world condition then victor? How does it compare to other amps. Mc2, crown, crest, void etc? While i lack the technical knowledge to really understand it i follow the maths, and as you say, physics dont lie. But either if an amp is 1) comparable calculated output to what else is available (i don't mean pkn, i mean what most guys are using) and 2) does the job well Surely theres no issue?
|
||
U.Viktor
Young Croc Joined: 04 May 2010 Status: Offline Points: 716 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Crown I-tech and newer MA series has some power levels not extremely inflated, some of them can deliver 25-50% of their nominal power for at least 2-3seconds. Not on 2 Ohms of course :-) What we are using XE series PKN can do 60-70% of their nominal power level for several seconds. Currently the H8 what We have seen the largest sustained capability amp with 63A 230Vac inlet. Pulled out 72A or something and delivered 2* 7600W continuous 1KHz to the 2.xR loads. But expensive and maybe not necessary where other XE amps can perform well on much lower cost.. Thing is that I would use two of 4R loaded amps instead of a single 2R loaded.
Edited by U.Viktor - 11 September 2019 at 3:15pm |
||
toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I would strongly suggest looking up the Production Partner tests for the X4, 44M20 and LabG 12K44, LA12X, amongst others for a better, well documented, trustworthy and independent test of an amplifier’s full feature set. Edited by toastyghost - 11 September 2019 at 5:37pm |
||
Post Reply | Page <1 1718192021 24> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |