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PD.2150 vs PDN.2151 response graph thoughts?

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Cheif_Stringer_ View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 July 2016 at 11:16pm
Im building a soundsystem designed to be compact, impactful, with exellent sound quality and bass extension down to 30hz. I intend to use this system for high sound quality and deep bass for smaller crowds, rather than being mainly concerned with getting the highest volume levels possible out of the drivers for bigger ones.

With all this considered the sub cabients im going to build are the Cubo Subs (tapped horn / bandpass hybrid believe) with 21 inch drivers (4 in total). They can go down to 30hz, are compact, and although they may not give the same volume levels as say the Hog Scoop 18s that is not my main concern, they are also the only subs i have space to store.


I was originally gonna use the PDN.2151s but after comparing the graphs to the PD.2150s im not too sure. Heres the graphs:

PDN.2151:


PD.2150:




As you can see the PDN seems to roll off and have lower output around 30hz, should i be corncerned about this given my goals for the system? The PDs are cheaper too but weigh more than the moon, wondering if the graph differences are enough to justify getting the 2150s, or going for the much lighter but more expensive PDNs.


As far as im aware PD subs are highly regarded but are they any other 21 inch drivers that are all round better?

Here is a link to both drivers i meationed with all specs:

http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD2150

http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PDN2151

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MattStolton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2016 at 7:55am
In a tapped horn, you may get a better, more even, output from a driver with a higher Fs. Those graphs mean very little for your application, as they were measured "2.83V. Half space response measured in a 234 Litre vented enclosure." which is a far cry from what you will be housing them in.

Only way to be sure is to model each in Horn Response, and then get building.
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2016 at 7:58am
And for the 2151 "*2.83V. Half space response measured in a 975 Litre sealed enclosure."

Ignore the graphs. Plug the TS data into HR, and have a look.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cheif_Stringer_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2016 at 8:20am
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

And for the 2151 "*2.83V. Half space response measured in a 975 Litre sealed enclosure."

Ignore the graphs. Plug the TS data into HR, and have a look.



Completely missed that! thanks man, so the more roll off is due to it being sealed vs ported im assuming even though the sealed is bigger? the drivers have the same 30 - 1000 listed range, pdn slightly higher fs. Yeah ive been told bass graphs arn't a good reference because of different enclosures but i assumed the same company would use the same one for such similar drivers for sake of reference, and i missed a key detail.

So im guessing based off all this my concern was false and id be better off using the PDN as its half the weight
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2016 at 10:00am
Weight is worth something, but Fs is 3Hz higher too, for the Neo, so really needs a sim to see if there is any or much difference.

Either way, sim will show up any anomalies, in advance of the real world situation, and all bets are off then!!

Cubos are well documented, so simply plug in the HR cab data from others, and modify the data for the specific drivers in question, and see what the look like. HR gives you a good starting point, before committing to sawdust.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cheif_Stringer_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2016 at 10:40am
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

Weight is worth something, but Fs is 3Hz higher too, for the Neo, so really needs a sim to see if there is any or much difference.

Either way, sim will show up any anomalies, in advance of the real world situation, and all bets are off then!!

Cubos are well documented, so simply plug in the HR cab data from others, and modify the data for the specific drivers in question, and see what the look like. HR gives you a good starting point, before committing to sawdust.


Appreciate your time, ive downloaded that software but dont even know where to begin with it and probably never will to be honest Dead, all i know is the Cubo Sub is supposed to work with a very wide range of drivers and the xmax, qts etc seem to fit well into whats recommended for it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2016 at 10:48am
You can cheat.

You should be able to find screen shots of someone simming a cubo of your size, and copy the S1-S2, and similar.

Simply substitute the driver's TS parameters, and you will get a graph. Do the same for the other driver, and re-run.

Loads of helpful HR guides floating about, to help you, and is a damn good starting point, to save some real world prototyping. If it looks OK on HR, it is often better in real life, especially with TH designs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cheif_Stringer_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2016 at 10:56am
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

You can cheat.

You should be able to find screen shots of someone simming a cubo of your size, and copy the S1-S2, and similar.

Simply substitute the driver's TS parameters, and you will get a graph. Do the same for the other driver, and re-run.

Loads of helpful HR guides floating about, to help you, and is a damn good starting point, to save some real world prototyping. If it looks OK on HR, it is often better in real life, especially with TH designs.


Okay thanks man, ill get researching and see what i can do, gonna buy / build tops and buy amps, dsp etc first so got plenty of time before ill be buying my first subwoofer

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crashpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2016 at 9:39pm
While Cubo subs are awesome, I would not clearly recommend these for use under 40Hz as best solution. Down there in these frequencies. There is no hybrid enclosures typy function of the hox anymore. It is simple bassreflex, with its advantages and disadvantages. One of these disadvantages for cubo sub is that the speaker will have lesa volume of the box to work with compared to normal bassreflex at that size, if possible. It should give more output.
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