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Turbosound restore project

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tv00 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tv00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turbosound restore project
    Posted: 04 October 2016 at 11:06am
Ok, so I'm back in the bad-vibe-thread:-)

Originally posted by madboffin madboffin wrote:

Don't forget, TMS3 and TMS4 were different products for different markets. A "single box solution" isn't the same thing as a "modular touring cabinet".

Anyway, this is Speakerplans. Experimentation, modification, upgrading/messing up an original design are all part of the fun.

If you want a vintage Turbosound box to sound original, you will need an original mid driver. If you want to improve on an old design, that's a reasonable aim but will need a lot of development work. And your idea of "improve" definitely won't be the same as Sean's...


I get it now;-) I just mean TMS-3 IS LOUDER:-)
ALL MY MIDS ARE ORIGINAL LS_1004s from PD (PD was founded by turbosound!)
15"s & 1"s are rcf / bms sounding better, we're so happy:-)

@Roadrunner:
1: Read your own posts
2: You can't read, I'm NOT doing false marketing renting them out as modded tms boxes, get it???

Back to formidable audio that you call IDIOTS:
Apparently the "IDIOT" doing these "FALSE" mods is the designer Tony Andrews himself:
http://www.formidableaudio.com/flashlight-reborn/flashlight-refurb-in-detail/
Here he's also doing some IDIOT mods to a F221:
https://www.facebook.com/S1.SolutionOne/photos/a.1458512370840938.1073741839.749695115056004/1458513730840802/?type=3&theater
LOL, what an idiot, I wonder why turbosound ever hired Tony Andrews & John Newsham that support idiotic improvements??? -Oh! -Wait a minute, -they're the founders, LOL
www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2016 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by tv00 tv00 wrote:

LOL a lot of bullshit.

That pretty much sums up every post you've made on this thread so far, so I'll agree with that as your opening line on this one...

Quote Yes you questioned whether I've heard the boxes with original drivers, read back!

Please directly quote the post and explain how what I said would imply that, I'm genuinely intrigued.

Quote My customers and I prefer the cleanest most uniform sound and of course it's not false marketing renting them out as turbosound with newer drivers, this is what it is.
the point is that they are not Turbosound TMS-x or TSE-x boxes as they no longer fit the Architects/Engineering Specification that defines the product. To describe them as something that they no longer are (or never have been in the case of your copies) IS false marketing.

Quote If I was really stupid I would use the mixed original drivers (2 different 1" & 3 different 10" & 3 different 15") This way I'd get a more bumpy response and a less uniform coverage.
I kept the original drivers for whenever I sell them, I would never fit something that doesn't sound as good.
I will grant you that identical loading would be ideal across a TMS system however in the grand scheme of things the only part that should be of any pressing concern would be the 10'' it would be nowhere near the hell-on-earth you're making it out to be. In particular on the HF section as CD-102s and CD-103s can quite happily exist on the same system if a thimble-full of care is taken.


Quote How about this joke:
"TMS-4 demolishes TMS-3 as a single box solution, end of."
WHAAAT? Turbosound & all PA-riggers disagrees. There's a reason tms-3 was on the tours and is heavier. The tms-3 has double 10" & double 1" and more powerfull 4" bass drivers.
I was unaware that you were the grand-high spokes person for all of Turbosound and PA-riggers...
Since the TMS-3 isn't a single box solution this is quite amusing.
I expect that the the TMS-3 being used in preference of TMS-4 on tours had nothing to do with the complete PIG of a flying system for the TMS-4 or that the TMS-3 had integral Fly points and was designed from the get go to be easily array-able either flown or ground stacked with a dedicated Sub/bass solution below..


Quote
ASK the pros, READ the manual, LISTEN to both.
That is a bold thing to say online when you don't know who you are talking to but I will be sure to do so next time I see pros or manuals..

Quote
This thread is way off
and has been so since you brought your ill-informed opinion out for an airing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madboffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2016 at 8:39pm
Don't forget, TMS3 and TMS4 were different products for different markets. A "single box solution" isn't the same thing as a "modular touring cabinet".

Anyway, this is Speakerplans. Experimentation, modification, upgrading/messing up an original design are all part of the fun.

If you want a vintage Turbosound box to sound original, you will need an original mid driver. If you want to improve on an old design, that's a reasonable aim but will need a lot of development work. And your idea of "improve" definitely won't be the same as Sean's...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shagnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2016 at 8:09pm
The TMS-3 is NOT a single box solution, hence the TSW-124.

As for the Correct drivers, any Turbo box not carrying the driver it left the factory with is NOT a Turbo box anymore.

If it was load with PD for Turbo then it must must have to be a Turbo box.

As for ask the Pros, I am one, I earn more than you can imagine!!!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tv00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2016 at 6:39pm
LOL a lot of bullshit.

Yes you questioned whether I've heard the boxes with original drivers, read back!
+There's no single thing such as the original drivers, could be fane this or that, pd this or that, jbl or EV.

+My customers and I prefer the cleanest most uniform sound and of course it's not false marketing renting them out as turbosound with newer drivers, this is what it is.
If I was really stupid I would use the mixed original drivers (2 different 1" & 3 different 10" & 3 different 15") This way I'd get a more bumpy response and a less uniform coverage.
I kept the original drivers for whenever I sell them, I would never fit something that doesn't sound as good.

How about this joke:
"TMS-4 demolishes TMS-3 as a single box solution, end of."
WHAAAT? Turbosound & all PA-riggers disagrees. There's a reason tms-3 was on the tours and is heavier. The tms-3 has double 10" & double 1" and more powerfull 4" bass drivers.
ASK the pros, READ the manual, LISTEN to both.

This thread is way off


Edited by tv00 - 29 September 2016 at 6:40pm
www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pipes66 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2016 at 3:20pm
Hi Ford,
I've sent emails but I don't know if you're getting them,I received yours but it was in my junk mailbox.
Please have a look or try again.
Thanks Peter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shagnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2016 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by leif.joson leif.joson wrote:

The sound comunity is one of the most helpful and sharing community's I have ever been a part of. .

Just be sure the people sharing have the credentials to make their input valid.

On this particular thread :-

TMS-4 demolishes TMS-3 as a single box solution, end of.

The cd-101 sounded fine, and paid the way to get the cd-102 and cd-103 variants to market.

People "upgrading" Turbo boxes to me is cannibalising, I have forgotten more about TMS > Floodlight era boxes than most will ever know, the ones that worked, work great...

Flood was only ever 5 way active if you wanted to really make it happen....

As for Formidable, great ideal, but solution looking for problem is a real issue, if I had a requirement I would rent the kit, but I know how to make it sing, despite the wrong drivers.

Any commercial box with non-oem drivers is IMHO not worthy of the name of the carcass employed.

Smile




Edited by shagnasty - 27 September 2016 at 8:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leif.joson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2016 at 7:47pm
The sound comunity is one of the most helpful and sharing community's I have ever been a part of. People tend to help and shear knowledge without gaining ekonomic or other self interest and often without getting les experienced to feel dumb.

Sound is science and art combined. The sciense part we can measure and compare. Then ther is the art and feeling. we can try to explane that to utters but it's personal and ther for needs to be respected as personal experience. Ther is no right or wrong in experiences.

Let's keep it that way. Thanks for all of you that shears your knowledge and experiences. I learn and get eager to know more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2016 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by tv00 tv00 wrote:

LOL, the cd-101 sound dull +I didn't see a SINGLE CAB that had the xover updated, so all the originals sounded crap:-)
Lot's of people actually changed their drivers into JBL because they preferred that sound.

Thats an interesting opinion that Ive not heard from anyone else other than the "SPL=Quality" boys...


Probably I should stop replying your comments, just feel the nerve of this, it's not about sound:
Quote
"kick out foreigners", "yes sir"


Quote
I'm every so often embarrassed to be an European white-man prick.
Soon I'm not allowed to call myself "white" anymore as I'm black inside


Please, dont start trying to chide me on making points that are based on anything other than sound when you attempt to bolster your arguments with shite like that. The chip you have on your shoulder about race has nothing to do with me, thank you very much.
----------

1) Read the above, there is such a thing as "the original drivers", theres many that are not.
2) Ive not written anything that implies you havent heard the original loadings.
3) If you are renting the boxes out as Turbosound TMS-x then that is exactly why you should be loading them with original drivers. If you cant meet the Engineers specification then its not a TMS-x anymore and that is False Advertising.
4) Most of the people I know of with Floodlight are a bunch of Free-party crews, Im more inclined to believe the opinion of people that dont spend their time getting off their tits in a muddy field in Norfolk...
5) See 1).

Quote
What is this: "His apoplectic defence of his modification is a reoccurring theme on the forum."


It is what it means and once you understand what it means you can answer yourself...


Quote
You seem to be preaching a religion with no common sense


Yes, its very easy to disregard something you dont want to hear or dont agree with as nonsense, believe me when I say that the feeling is mutual Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tv00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2016 at 1:18pm
I sure get more constructive feedback speaking to John Newsham:-)
He even sent some of the real old turbo drivers they had laying at F1 for free.

I really like the Funktion One founders, they don't seem to be lost in dogmatic ideas at all
www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tv00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2016 at 1:16pm
LOL, the cd-101 sound dull +I didn't see a SINGLE CAB that had the xover updated, so all the originals sounded crap:-)
Lot's of people actually changed their drivers into JBL because they preferred that sound.

Probably I should stop replying your comments, just feel the nerve of this, it's not about sound:

Originally posted by RoadRunnersDust RoadRunnersDust wrote:

Sorry Leif, that was aimed entirely at TV00. His apoplectic defence of his modification is a reoccurring theme on the forum.

Put me face to face with Formidable and I will quite happily call them idiots.
The kind of idiots that put a long-throw stadium system into a tiny club and managed to, unsurprisingly, lose coherence anywhere but the dance floor whilst the line-arrays that the system should have pissed all over ate it for breakfast.

The kind of idiots that just blew a large pile of money on a stadium system with no stadium to run it in and no tours to tour it on.

The kind of idiots that spunked a pile of money on refurbishing amplifiers that are too big and heavy to be acceptable in the market they're punting at and have subsequently had to replace them.

The kind of idiots that last I heard were in some deep financial poo.

They are not the messiah, they're some very silly boys.


All you're writing is "The kind of idiots", not a single intelligent argument!
LOL, I wonder who's the idiot? Consider this:

1: Read above, there's no such things as "the original drivers", there's many, most often WRONG.
2: I did hear them with (all) the original drivers, so why do you write I didn't?
3: I have all the original drivers here, but my job is to give the customers the best, most transient & uniform sound, so why would I fit them?
4: People with floods seems to agree that the bms driver sounds better. As for what I can read about the formidable testing peoples opinion is that the system performed much better than the new linearrays they were compared to, they did a big A/B INSIDE A CLUB:
http://www.formidableaudio.com/back-on-the-a-stage-for-further-flashlight-optimisation-in-shoot-out-against-l-acoustics-and-db-line-arrays-2/
5: Turbosound and funktion one has always improved the drivers they were using, you still get new driver versions & phaseplugs for the Funktion ones. The tsw-218 started with a pd driver then went on to another pd, then b&c.

What is this: "His apoplectic defence of his modification is a reoccurring theme on the forum."

This is silly, I don't need to defence making the best possible sound, and you can't stop me:-)
I have well-documentet testing behind this, what do you have apart from some religion?

People come up with arguments like a 4" driver won't work up to 250 hz, but it does in the tms-3, the xtro, the aspect and many more.

You seem to be preaching a religion with no common sense, it does not appear to be about good sound or even being interested in what's going on in a turbosound cabinet, but a purely dogmatic religion.


Edited by tv00 - 27 September 2016 at 1:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2016 at 12:55pm
You seem to be mistaking the term 'original' for 'that one particular model'.

Any driver that belongs in those boxes is original, once you get into era and combinations you can start to argue that you might have an original driver or set of drivers that is not original for the particular box you want to put it in (notably the boxes that had to be modified to accept the wider PD chassis).

Just because a design gets revised doesn't make the new driver unoriginal, it's a legitimate and documented revision to the design, regardless of changes in performance.

I've heard a number of trusted opinions saying that the original CD-101 sounded very good, the only problem was that in order for it to keep up with the 10" it would destroy its self and not sound particularly nice doing so, ultimately reducing the useable output from the entire box.

From what I've heard about EV and JBL loaded cabs across the pond, it was a project that was rapidly abandoned and that a lot of the cabinets floating around like that now are either copies, which were quite prolific over there or cabinets that have been loaded with the EV/JBL drivers at a later date as they were significantly cheaper in the states than recones or replacement drivers.

IIRC the huge TMS system that Styx toured was all UK loaded

The TMS series boxes have never sounded as good passive as they do active although to say they sound terrible with the prior revision to the X-over isn't entirely true, that's just subjective opinion. They just sound better with latest revision.
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