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-=SHOW OFF YOUR SOUND SYSTEM!!!!=-PART 3

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Father-Francis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Father-Francis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2018 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by boots-hifi boots-hifi wrote:

Did you use the 18sound design subs under the booth? Or was it all F1?
No we used the ported 21” I designed , will edit the link on here 
Here these are the subs we used got 8 of them 


Edited by Father-Francis - 15 November 2018 at 6:14am
Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilidapili Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2018 at 10:51am
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

Not a bit to much sub in the booth? Wink

No, if cables popping out of the performers' equipment sockets isn't a bit too much LOL

Originally posted by Bams Bams wrote:

And after that gig one happy warehouse techie who has to fixate all the flat cables in the moing heads again :)
 
But besides that.. great to see something out of the box. was this a back2Back gig or three dj's mixing together?

Three person band with instruments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2018 at 4:04pm
Bassi Gradassi Sound System



Edited by Jo bg - 16 November 2018 at 4:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2018 at 4:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Father-Francis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2018 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by wilidapili wilidapili wrote:

Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

Not a bit to much sub in the booth? Wink

No, if cables popping out of the performers' equipment sockets isn't a bit too much LOL

Originally posted by Bams Bams wrote:

And after that gig one happy warehouse techie who has to fixate all the flat cables in the moing heads again :)
 
But besides that.. great to see something out of the box. was this a back2Back gig or three dj's mixing together?

Three person band with instruments.
I forgot about that , everything was taped to their table , they couldn’t drink from glasses their bottles were forming like hell , you wouldn’t get me to Dj or stand on that stage, for more than 20mins . But all in all wicked experience, next time we’ll make a mono block at the end of the room 
Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 12:54pm
Well, bit the bullet, and bought a pile of RCF mini line array!

12 off RCF HDL6-A (Flight cased in 3's), 4 off RCF 8004-A with jackets, 2 full fly bars, 4 pole top Fly Bars, weather proof covers for terminals, etc.

One Stack, with a bunch of reprobates (I'm the one leaning on the stack, with the wire cutters hanging out of my pocket!)

Top two boxes are angled up to cover the balcony, with bottom four boxes covering the "Stalls". Plenty loud enough, and pretty even coverage.

Same event, LBWF Sports Awards, shed loads (32) of RGBAWUv uplighters...


A lectern I built, featuring a 50" LED screen for running .pptx or video through. Also got built in shockmounts for gooseneck mics.



First use of HDL6-A, as point source on sticks, in a horrible hangar of a room, for a conference.


Some more toys, love the A&H Qu-16; for the money, brilliant. Blackmagic ATEM Television Studio Pro HD for switching video in HD, with HD-SDI transmission kit.


In use. As you can see, we never say "no", no matter how odd the venue! This room is normally used for training scaffolding and other construction trades. Sounds like it looks, very reflective and bouncy.


Overall, the RCF HDL6-A is a very versatile little box. I am aware I haven't really got enough to be a true line array, but does put sound where you aim it. Very easy to work with, with a bit of judicious EQ cuts in the 3K region, and a little boost in the 10K+, and the EASE data seems to be trustworthy, and tally up with what you hear. For 6" drivers surprisingly good low end in full range mode. For the money, excellent bit of kit.

I know there is better available from many of the usual suspects, but not at this price point! Ends up being QSC KLA/DAS Vantec20 money, if not cheaper to achieve any particular SPL, but is a fully fledged line array, and you can actually change interbox angles! Flyware is very cheap, compared with all the others, but very thought through and flexible.

I like it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote studio45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 2:46pm
Have you done any bands with it yet? How does it get on with live snare drums? 
That's where every other tiny line array I've experienced falls over; no bottom end on the snare, ie poor integration between midtops and subs. It's a hard job to get a set of 6 inchers to talk to a 15" or 18" bass bin, especially if it's on the ground and the tops are flown.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 5:33pm
Nothing live yet, just conference type stuff, and pre-recorded playback.

I have reasonable hopes for it though, with live. The only issue so far is a lobe at 300hz which seems to get onto stage, and be a pain, but a v narrow notch seems to cure that. Funnily enough EASE does predict it, which reassures that the ease data is a true measurement. Need a much longer length of array to get control down that low.

Either way, a massive improvement on the naffness I was using before. This is a stepping stone to bigger and  better. One day a big pile of MLA or vDosc, or whatever is the £500K rig du jour, but you have to start somewhere. As ever, "for the money", very happy, has exceeded expectation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 6:06pm
Just out of interest, whats the HDL6 price?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Just out of interest, whats the HDL6 price?

List is about £1200 inc VAT.

The flyware is where the major savings are to be had. KLA bumper is about 950 inc, list, whereas this has a bumper for about £650. However the RCF bumper is also a ground stack bumper, sub (m20 tophat) ground stack, and comes with 35mm pole adaptor, and a certifcated shackle. KLA bumper is just for flying and nothing else. Same as DAS Vantec20.

What bit me on the derrier was the flightcases. Best part of £2k! Didn't fancy the RCF dollies, as no in transit protection, or ability to stack other stuff on top.

Some serious deals to be done with RCF UK, especially with cash with order.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2018 at 10:37am
Originally posted by studio45 studio45 wrote:

Have you done any bands with it yet? How does it get on with live snare drums? 
That's where every other tiny line array I've experienced falls over; no bottom end on the snare, ie poor integration between midtops and subs. It's a hard job to get a set of 6 inchers to talk to a 15" or 18" bass bin, especially if it's on the ground and the tops are flown.


There is a solution, if low mid is too thin for you.

The "companion" sub to the HDL6-A is a 12" bass cab, the HDL12-AS. Designed to be hung with HDL6A, or could form the basis of a ground stack.

When I spoke to Chris Fearn (Formerly Wharfedale) and Dave Ball (Formerly Polar Audio), both were hesitant about the HDL12 as the only source of LF, and both said 8004A in a 1:3 ratio, which, from now having them, I agree with. However, if you want some bass in the flown array, wang a couple of HDL12AS in to reinforce bass from above, as much as your ground bass array. HDL12 is same width as HDL6, so easy box linking, and, once again, the full flybar just needs an optional "L" shape bracket to hang the deeper HDL12 from it. Cheap and flexible fly options.

I cannot reiterate enough how affordable and flexible the flyware is. Other companies offerings at this system price point, are extortionate for a bit of box section and some pins, and then you have to buy a different one if you want to ground stack. And another one if you want to ground stack on top of subs. The RCF solution is an elegant piece of engineering, which lets you configure the array in any format that fits for that particular event. Less stock to hold/purchase, really nicely engineered, which gives you a lot of confidence. And it is cheaper than equivalent from others!

The only flaw I have found, is with the 8004. It only has one handle on opposite sides, totalling two for the entire box. Funnily enough, for handling it, it is enough. However, when on its side, the rear foot of the ground stack partially sits on this handle. If they had put 2 handles a side, this middle zone would be free for rear foot support.

However, apart from this niggle, I still reckon the joy of this, is its flexibility. If you want it as a point source full range box on a stick, it does it. If you want a sub->winch stick->3 HDL6, a side, it does it. Max ground stack is 8004a (Probably 2, unless cardiod) with 6 HDL6A on top; easy and one man deployable, as long a you have ramp in/out van. Bigger than that, much as you can do longer hangs of HDL6/HDL12, you would probably be looking for a bigger LA box, such as the HDL10 or 20, with your preference in sub option to suit.

8004A offers cardiod setting in multiples of 3 boxes, if that's your thing.

8004A is 55Kg, but with casters, easy, and I can stack them 2 high on my own. HDL6A is 11Kg, so silly light, and easy to lift up. We had flight cases made for them, so three per case, with a separate compartment for powercons/xlr/flyware. 2 man lift for loaded case in/out van or to stack them, but I have a decent ramp. Both 8004 and HDL6 have powercon in/out, and XLR in/out. 8004 has XLR in, full range out, or X-Over out, at either 80 or 120Hz switchable. I am using 120Hz to feed HDL6.

Max hang of HDL6-A is 16 boxes. Total number of boxes in a mix of HDL12 and HDL6 is 16 boxes total, although I did sim 4 HDL12 with 16 HDL6, and it claimed to be valid config for flying - just under 300Kg. I would check with RCF before attempting that though!

I am not going to claim that a HDL6 rig of any size would suit Main Stage at Glastonbury, but for the size of rigs I do, it is so damn easy to deploy, and a joy to engineer with. Still a one man deployable system, and is out the door earning money, as it can go on any style of job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2018 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Just out of interest, whats the HDL6 price?


Ok. Actual List prices: (All prices are UK published RRP, + VAT)

HDL6-A - £1135
SUB 8004-AS - £2179
Fly Bar Complete; M20 sub top hat adaptor, Ground stack, fly and 35mm pole mount adaptor, certified flying shackle - £620
Pole Mount (Max 3 HDL6 on 35mm stick) - £193
Sub Covers - £95
Cart for moving max 6 coupled HDL6-A - £364.00
HDL6-A Connector rain covers (Pack of two, one for Power, one for XLR) - £64

Subject to a bit of fluctuation of GBP vs Euro, as invoiced from RCF SPA.

I got my own casters for the 8004-AS, as loads cheaper than RCF. I also got my flight cases for the HDL6-A, as open carts didn't fit with the way I store or move them. Swanflight did a nice one for us, 4 cases holding 3 HDL6-A each, with a dog box of sorts, to hold leads and flyware - £426.50 each + vat and pallet delivery. Ouch!

So, at least at "List", my new little rig adds up to £27K + VAT.

However, RCF UK did us a cracking deal, but we did pay up front, which always gets a few more points off.

If you compare this with QSC KLA12 (List £2200) or DAS Vantec 20A (List £2099), or even JBL VRX932LAP (List £3455), and their subs, QSC KLA181 (List £2288) and DAS 118A (List £2099), JBL VRX918SP (List £2260), and then look at flyware (KLA AF12 list is £880, and is fly only - and you can't change interbox angles-mewh-or use it for a ground stack), the RCF keeps looking more affordable. The KLA12 and Vantec 20A both feature integral 35mm Top hats, but you can only put a max of 2 onto top of a pole. RCF, with either re-purposed main fly bar, or optional dedicated pole mount flybar, does 3. And the RCF lets you change the angles to whatever you fancy, QSC KLA, JBL VRX9xx and Vantec20 is fixed interbox angles. Use the full RCF flybar and you can ground stack 6 max.

Equally, getting a RCF account gets you significant trade discounts, more than twice what others were offering. With QSC changing from Shure Distribution to AED or AudioLogic, margin/discount has disappeared, Leisuretec was best price for QSC! Damon was offering some interesting prices for DAS, and I have a Sound Technology account for JBL which offers similar discounts structure to RCF, but the RCF kept winning on functionality, as much as price.

The RCF will scale usefully past 3 boxes, whereas the KLA, VRX9xx and Vantec20A are a bit pointless at more than 2 boxes, as you can't change the interbox angles.

The problem with the JBL VRX9xx, QSCKLA12, DAS Vantec20A is best illustrated with a picture:

robbed from https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,146897.msg1378119.html#msg1378119


Maybe for covering stadium seating from pitchside, but bugger all use for anything else! Actually that is "rigged" correctly, and that is described in the JBL manual as the maximum ground stack config! Gawd only knows what you are supposed to do if it rains?

The RCF HDL6-a, whilst small drivers, will form any hang/ground stack you fancy to structural limits of flyware. The voicing of the box is as good as a 1x12"+HF, and SPL per box is same as anything else mentioned. I guess a lot has been "fixed" in DSP (Or whatever their FIR-Phase actually is), but it works.
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
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