Electric-Arc Loudspeaker - The innovative solution |
Post Reply |
Author | |
What is it
New Member Joined: 25 October 2016 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 26 October 2016 at 12:04am |
What do
you think about this? Electric-Arc Loudspeaker -
The innovative solution Edited by What is it - 26 October 2016 at 10:08am |
|
MattStolton
Old Croc Joined: 04 September 2010 Location: Walthamstow Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Two issues:
1) Only really any good outdoors - excessive ozone in the home is not that great an idea. 2) Low sensitivity means that for pro-audio use, outdoors, 113dB max isn't loud enough. The only thing going for it, is the beautiful waterfall plots, no overshoot at all - wonderful. But apart from that, can't see the benefit, too many drawbacks. Perhaps play music at penguins, to keep them happy, and fill the ozone hole at the same time?
|
|
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains" |
|
jbl_man
Moderator Group Joined: 12 January 2005 Location: London. Status: Offline Points: 11154 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Penguins.
Also watched the video, (the girl has a lovely voice by the way,is she single? ) interesting,but seems an excessively complicated answer to a problem that doesn't really exist? Probably also bibically expensive,and very power inefficient? Every transducer will need its own mains supply? |
|
Be seeing you.
|
|
MattStolton
Old Croc Joined: 04 September 2010 Location: Walthamstow Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
That isn't a deal breaker, quiescent is 35W, peak power of 80W, so not too weird in the greater scheme of things. Universal SMPS so easy to just plug into local supply, whatever voltage. My issues, are with emissions of all types. Ozone in a domestic environment, is not pleasent, just ask an asthmatic. Equally, the audio emissions, whilst looking to be free of any distortion from diaphragm overshoot (the waterfall looks awesome), is just not efficient enough. If I am being really picky, looks to only really do 4K-15K +-3dB. Decent ribbon will exceed that, and offer similar waterfall, with often higher sensitivity (alcons stuff will rip your ears off with SPL), but no nasties. Even Peavey managed to make a ribbon for PA use. I have seen home brew versions of these on the net, and whilst impressed with the ingenuity to make it work, the compromises are too high.
|
|
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains" |
|
What is it
New Member Joined: 25 October 2016 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
About OZONE ... Read chemical encyclopedia, basic
literacy. Ozone at temperatures above 158F breaks, cold plasma is very
difficult to obtain for ozone. For use powerful arc lamps (efficiency = 1%),
where a lot of ultraviolet light, and it adds an oxygen atom. very not for
long!
Information about the absence of mechanical parts, to overload as much
as you do not break in touring work is important. Ribbon afraid overload and
expensive + amp? Price? I think the sound of EAL much better than any of-Ribbon. Type PRO work
in a group, pick up the required number and receive power in high fidelity
sound. While for outdoor can not come, only inside
buildings. Edited by What is it - 26 October 2016 at 2:54pm |
|
MattStolton
Old Croc Joined: 04 September 2010 Location: Walthamstow Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Exactly. When it breaks down it generates a molecule of O2, and an Oxygen free radical. Free radicals are the danger.... At sea level, even at concentrations of around 0.01ppm, detectable to human nose, and considered unpleasent, and causes major respiratory issues for vulnerable parties. About MattStolton ... BSC (Hons) Chemistry, 2II (Desmond!) - Queen Mary & Westfield, Class of 97. Feel free to shoot me down about the dangers of Ozone in a domestic setting.
|
|
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains" |
|
MattStolton
Old Croc Joined: 04 September 2010 Location: Walthamstow Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
A few seconds on the wonderful webthingy gives you this - peer reviewed overview:
Author: U.S. Environmental Protection Agency - Office of Air and Radiation; Indoor Environments Division, 1200 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Mail code: 6609J
Washington, DC 20460
www.epa.gov/iaq Pages 21-22 "Ozone Generators: Ozone generators sold as air cleaners and marketed
as in-duct or portable units use UV light or corona
discharge to produce ozone, which is dispersed by a
fan into occupied spaces.8 Some manufacturers and vendors of ozone
generators suggest that ozone reacts with both
chemical and biological pollutants and transforms
them into harmless substances. They also often
make statements and distribute materials that
lead the public to believe that these devices are
always safe and effective in controlling indoor air
pollutants. However, ozone is an irritant gas that
reacts with lung tissue and can cause asthma attacks;
coughing; chest discomfort; irritation of the nose,
throat, and trachea; and other adverse health effects.
Ozone is a lung
irritant that can
cause adverse health
effects. As ozone reacts with chemical pollutants, it can
produce harmful by-products.8, 9, 10 Available scientific evidence shows that, at ozone
concentrations below public health standards,
ozone has little potential to remove indoor
air contaminants such as many odor-causing
chemicals, viruses, bacteria, molds, and tobacco
smoke; thus, ozone is generally ineffective in
controlling indoor air pollution. Some controlled
studies show that the concentration of ozone
produced by ozone generators can exceed
standards even when consumers follow the
manufacturer’s instructions. No federal agency
has approved ozone generators for use in occupied
spaces.
There is a large body of written material
on ozone and the use of ozone indoors, but
much of this material makes claims or draws
conclusions without substantiation and a basis in
sound science. In developing Ozone Generators
that Are Sold as Air Cleaners, EPA reviewed a
wide assortment of this literature, including
information provided by a leading manufacturer
of ozone-generating devices. In keeping with
EPA’s policy of ensuring that the information
it provides is based on sound science, only peer
reviewed, scientifically supported findings and
conclusions were relied on in developing this
document. The document is posted on the EPA
Web site at www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html.
The public is advised to use methods proven to
be safe and effective in controlling indoor air
pollution. These methods include eliminating
or controlling pollutant sources and increasing
outdoor air ventilation. Federal pesticide law requires manufacturers of
ozone generators to list an EPA establishment
number on the product’s packaging. This number
merely identifies the facility that manufactured
the product. The presence of this number on a
product’s packaging does not imply that EPA
endorses the product, nor does it imply that EPA
has found the product to be safe or effective." Cited references: 8. Ozone Generators that are sold as air
cleaners: An assessment of effectiveness
and health consequences. U.S.
Environmental Protection Agency.
http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/
ozonegen.html 9. Shaughnessy, R.J., and Sextro, R.G.
2006. What Is an Effective Portable
Air-Cleaning Device? A Review. Journal
of Occupational and Environmental
Hygiene. Vol. 3, pp. 169-181. 10. Weshler, C. J. 2006. Ozone’s Impact
on Public Health: Contributions
from Indoor Exposures to Ozone and
Products of Ozone-Initiated Chemistry.
Environmental Health Perspectives. Vol.
114, No 10, pp. 1489-1496. When the EPA come out and say "Ozone is bad", it really must be bad, given all the things they are accused of rubber stamping as acceptable!! The original cited EPA document (8) is missing, but found an excerpt which is relevant: From the document www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html "What is ozone?Ozone is a molecule composed of three atoms of oxygen. Two atoms of oxygen form the basic oxygen molecule — the oxygen we breathe that is essential to life. The third oxygen atom can detach from the ozone molecule, and re-attach to molecules of other substances, thereby altering their chemical composition. It is this ability to react with other substances that forms the basis of manufacturers’ claims. How is ozone harmful?The same properties that allow high concentrations of ozone to react with organic matter outside the body give it the ability to react with similar organic matter that makes up the body, and potentially cause harmful health consequences. When inhaled, ozone can damage the lungs. Relatively low amounts can cause chest pain, coughing, shortness of breath and throat irritation. Ozone may also worsen chronic respiratory diseases such as asthma and compromise the ability of the body to fight respiratory infections. People vary widely in their susceptibility to ozone. Healthy people, as well as those with respiratory difficulty can experience breathing problems with exposure to ozone. Exercise during exposure to ozone causes a greater amount of ozone to be inhaled, and increases the risk of harmful respiratory effects. Recovery from the harmful effects can occur following short-term exposure to low levels of ozone, but health effects may become more damaging and recovery less certain at higher levels or from longer exposures (US EPA, 1996a, 1996b). Are ozone generators effective at controlling indoor air pollution?Available scientific evidence shows that at concentrations that do not exceed public health standards, ozone has little potential to remove indoor contaminants. First, a review of scientific research shows that for many of the chemicals found in indoor environments the reaction process with ozone may take months or years (Boeniger, 1995). Second, for many chemicals with which ozone does readily react, the reaction can form a variety of harmful or irritating by-products (Weschler et al., 1992a,1992b,1996; Zhang and Lioy, 1994). Machines that generate ozone are not effective in removing carbon monoxide (Salls, 1927; Shaughnessy et al., 1994) or formaldehyde (Esswein and Boeniger, 1994). In fact, when tested on new carpet odors and gasses, the reaction with ozone actually increased the number of aldehydes and volatile organic compounds (Weschler et al., 1992). Some of these new compounds created through the reaction with ozone are very reactive, irritating and a potential health threat. Third, ozone does not remove particles (e.g., dust and pollen) from the air, including the particles that cause most allergies. However, some machines that generate ozone also produce ions. An ionizer is a device that disperses negatively (and/or positively) charged ions into the air. These ions attach to particles in the air giving them a negative or positive charge so that the particles may attach to nearby surfaces such as walls, furniture or each other and settle out of the air. Some units also have internal “plates” that help gather particles. In recent experiments, ionizers were found to be less effective in removing particles of dust, tobacco smoke, pollen or mold spores than either HEPA filters or electrostatic precipitators. (Shaughnessy et. al, 1994) If a machine does not emit more than 50 parts per billion allowed by the EPA, can it still be harmful?Yes, there is no “safe” level of ozone. For many people, even at the 50 parts per billion of ozone allowed by the EPA, exposure far exceeds the tolerance level. However, there are also other factors that contribute to ozone levels. First is the size of the room where the machine generating ozone is being used. In one study a machine run in a 350 square foot room generated ozone counts in the room of 500 to 800 parts per billion — ten times the allowable limit. Second, indoor air generally contains some ozone — particularly when ozone is at high levels in the outdoor environment. Indoor ozone concentrations generally run at 10 to 20 parts per billion, but can be as high as 30 to 50 parts per billion. When you add the ozone coming from a machine, it would most certainly exceed allowable limits. Third, the simultaneous use of multiple devices greatly increases the total ozone output and therefore greatly increases the risk of excessive exposure. The US Food and Drug Administration also addresses the issue of the labeling of machines that generate ozone. In the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 21, Volume 8, Part 801 (www.fda.gov) it states:“A number of devices currently on the market generate ozone by design or as a byproduct. Since exposure to ozone above a certain concentration can be injurious to health, any such device will be considered adulterated and/or misbranded within the meaning of sections 501 and 502 of the act if it is used or intended for use under the following conditions:
Conclusions
So. 50 parts per billion is mentioned as being a safe lower limit, but even then, can cause injury to individuals with sensitivity. Basically, no safe lower limit. And you want to put 2 devices, within a few metres of a human, breathing away, listening to their Steely Dan LP for an hour or two. You must be able to see the possible problem?
|
|
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains" |
|
What is it
New Member Joined: 25 October 2016 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Traditional
ionophone and EAL are very different devices essentially. While using
a single energy transfer principle.
1. EAL is not ozone generator. 2. The device is not using corona discharge. 3.
Measurement of ozone at Valid for corona discharge is needed, one electrode and the second electrode - the environment. Therefore, approaching the second virtual electrode ionized gas (plasma) cools forming O3 in small quantities, which decays in a few minutes. The EAL electric arc has no cold zones, as it has two electrodes, between which closed the flow of electrons in the ionized gas and heated to the same temperature, prevents the formation of O3. In addition, the air flow path of the catalyst has Horn. At
temperatures above P.S. You,
and not only you, confuse the ionized air with ozonized Why does everyone like the air after a thunderstorm even asthmatics? Because ozone in the air? .... Or
ions? When
you fry something in the kitchen and the smell in the whole house ... .. Are you sure that all this is good for
your health? .... Edited by What is it - 27 October 2016 at 12:43pm |
|
odc04r
Old Croc Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Sarfampton Status: Offline Points: 5483 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
How much they paying you to try and sell this stuff then? 4 posts, all one topic.
I'd prefer ionized air to air with oxygen radicals in it, ions have a much shorter mean lifetime. Every ozone generator I have ever used has been done so under interlocks and extract. Atomic layer deposition tools, ozone generators for surface cleaning. Indoor use admittedly. Manufacturers would not waste the money or insist upon the facilities if it wasn't a good idea. Anyway I agree with Matt, interesting idea but too much complication with little improvement upon the existing methods of reproduction to get significant uptake. Edited by odc04r - 27 October 2016 at 12:31pm |
|
Post Reply | |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |