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unity horn project

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stalian87 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 August 2017 at 3:25pm
Hey everyone,

I'm looking to build my very own pair of unity horns to finish my stack but i'm really struggling to work out hornresp along side the very useful synergy calculator spreadsheet from billwaslo (http://www.hificircuit.com/community/threads/diy-synergy-unity-spreadsheet.19/)

I'd really appreciate some guidance with hornresp ( i know there are tutorials but i just can't follow it as much as i thought i could!)

something like the unity horn djk has created would be perfect...https://forum.speakerplans.com/unityhorn_topic42518.html

some info on what i'm trying to achieve:

i do crowds of upto 400
i need them to play from approx 150hz upwards.
i'd like approx 90hx60v coverage
the enclosure needs to be 571mm wide to conform with the rest of the stack.

thank you for any guidance/help given!
Sal

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snowflake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2017 at 5:17pm
if you want 90 degree horizontal and to get down to 150Hz it's going to have to be wider than 571mm. double that and you might be able to do it as 1142mm
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stalian87 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stalian87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2017 at 5:49pm
Ok that'll look ridiculous lol

How low could it go at 90 degrees?
Can I shorten or lengthen the horizontal dispersion to get that low within the width specified?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2017 at 8:19pm
You don't necessarily need them to play from 150Hz, if you're going to build that 4x12 sealed design.

You could theoretically run that 4x12 up to 500Hz. I mean it might not be absolutely optimal, but 300Hz is no problem for sure. If you need double your available space to extend to 150Hz, then I guess if you use your available space you can get to 300Hz eh? Probably the biggest issue would be crossing over in the vocal range. Somewhere around 250-300 would still leave almost all the vocals with the Unity horn.

You will need to EQ the 4x12 though if you want to run it higher than 125, because it has a rising response that just keeps on going up. Thankfully sealed boxes are the easiest boxes to EQ without losing fidelity.


Edited by Hemisphere - 26 August 2017 at 8:22pm
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stalian87 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stalian87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2017 at 8:35pm
and that's the issue i guess...i'd prefer the vocals to be pretty much all in the horn for best fidelity.
if i could get the horn to 250hz i think i'd be much happier!

which space are you referring to? behind the horn, depth wise?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2017 at 8:43pm
Note:

The quote is from William Cowan, and the hotlink (in the post you referred to) goes to his site.

William had made a copy of a Danley product, perhaps he would share the details of his network if you contacted him.

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/danley/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/SH-95-HO-spec-sheet1.pdf


Edited by _djk_ - 26 August 2017 at 8:44pm
djk
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stalian87 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stalian87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2017 at 8:51pm
oh s**t i didn't realise it was a quote lol my bad. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2017 at 11:42am
Originally posted by stalian87 stalian87 wrote:

Ok that'll look ridiculous lol

How low could it go at 90 degrees?
Can I shorten or lengthen the horizontal dispersion to get that low within the width specified?


with all respect, perhaps you should worry about what it will sound like rather than how it might look Tongue

if you go for a sixty degree box it won't be as wide. but you then may have to use two boxes a side for the coverage you want and have to start worrying about splay angles.

have a look at the danley range of synergy horns - it pretty much covers every sensible configuration you can think of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stalian87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2017 at 12:02pm
Lol unfortunately from a business point of view aesthetics is almost as important as sound! I've won lots of gigs from people coming up to me and complimenting the look as well as the sound.

I'll check out some danley horns.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2017 at 12:02pm
I still think the BMS coax option would be the most sensible for the size of box you're looking at.

As far as build goes it'll be a piece of piss, it'll sound fantastic - perhaps not quite 'unity horn' levels of point source coherency, but a very fair approximation.

The other advantage of the BMS coax is that you could make your midtop so compact that you could align it horizontally or vertically on the top of the stack.


Which I reckon looks nicer than a fixed width stack. Most of the nicest looking systems tend to have the midtops smaller than the other bins.

You could also fit a polemount for use with the TH18 on their own, or if you did work out a way to fix a detachable vent cap to the centre of the 4x12 you could fit a top-hat into the top of the 4x12 and then you've got a very capable compact system that you can run without the subs when appropriate.

I reckon designing and building a high quality detachable vent cap for the 4x12 and going for a BMS coax 12 midtop would be a lot less hassle and complexity and would offer much greater overall system flexibility. 

You can cross the coax at 125Hz too, of course, so that's a plus.

Edit: Of course the other thing is it doesn't mean you couldn't achieve the fixed width aesthetic if you preferred it - it may be that certain venues and gigs seem to fit better with fixed width and others with a 'midtop on a pedestal' look. 

If you built it as a trapezoid shape (as you should anyway with a midtop for standing waves), then when you're running it on it's side, to match the stack width, you could give it a little stand to make sure it fired forwards (which you could then adjust to fire downwards a little if you find the system needs to be positioned on a stage or somewhere else above floor height).

Then it would quite closely match the aesthetic of those dB 'mini-line-array' boxes you were looking at. If you gave it a well designed laser cut grille that bends over at the edges it would look very professional.


Edited by Hemisphere - 27 August 2017 at 12:29pm
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stalian87 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stalian87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2017 at 12:45pm
so with the coax bin....what kind of design would be best? just a simple sealed box? maybe 2 drivers per bin or is that overkill?! if 2 drivers per bin would i need to be careful of driver position?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2017 at 12:51pm
Sealed box, yes. 2 is definitely overkill (and don't forget they're 500 quid each). Danley's design with the same driver reaches 134dB peaks. If you're worried about not having enough power from the coax just cross them higher. They'll take loads of power from 200Hz and up and they'll be quite efficient up there too. 

Music program doesn't have such a great deal of high amplitude signals once you go above the bass range anyway - the ear is much more sensitive to sound up there, by some 20dB or more. That's not to say you don't need the headroom for maximum fidelity, but that you can, if absolutely necessary, turn the midtops up much louder (perceptually speaking) than the bass, with a peak limiter, and it'll still sound alright.


Edited by Hemisphere - 27 August 2017 at 12:56pm
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