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Crashpc View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 February 2020 at 8:16pm
Heya. I will add some more fun too.
Inspired with Seeburg K20, I'm going to try with 10"s and custom 3D printed horn too.
Fingers crossed for next try. 
Nikon and Canon people should not be married to each other. Why did you let this happen?
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demospete View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote demospete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2020 at 4:44pm
High, sorry I know this is an old post but I keep coming back to it, I’ve bought 2 full Fussion systems each time spending £2200, the first one got consumed by a nightclub going bankrupt in 2018 , the reason I love them is with a bit of signal processing they can sound sweet and also where else are you gonna buy (new or used) 10kw for 2k inc amps! I haven’t had a chance to take my latest one out yet but am looking forward to running it through a dbx pa2.. may I ask where did u get the plans for your 2 x 12” v and how are you getting on with it? I just love the way the 3000’s look, a bit shallow but can’t help it! Thanks in advance I am on demossvl@gmail.com       www.demossvl.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crashpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2019 at 7:38pm
Hello. I am both individual and company. I designed and finished it myself. Did not go well. It is borderline doable - I mean it would eat much more development time and money for good results. For this year I "Packed it" and decided to go with strong single 10" this time. This setup needs very specific drivers, very high precision and detailed box shape, and for now it seems like hell to assemble that, due to the in-slot dimensions and size constrains. And I forgot to mention unique horn and expensive driver, that can go low.

Not impossible, but damn hard. I will be thinking about it maybe for next year. At that time I believe it should be active box. Not passive anymore, these days are over. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote demospete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2019 at 4:28pm
so sorry, i appreciate this post is two years old, i tried private messaging you but not sure how.. may i ask, did you design this speaker cab yourself? are you an indivifual or company? i am very interested in this design and if its possible to purchase... any info would be greatly appreciated pete demossvl@gmail.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crashpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 October 2017 at 5:33am
I simmed what I needed to achieve, then I made the box as similar to the sim as possible. So I hope it will end up acceptable. I plan to use these with PC, so precise DSPing should not be a problem. My curiosity pushes me to build it fast. :-P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2017 at 7:54pm
This should be interesting! Your configuration seems to open wider and be a bit more tight at the back than in my 2x8" PPSL top. Can't wait to see some real world measurements.

If your box behaves anything like mine, you will need some precise DSP EQ to flatten the frequency response. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crashpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2017 at 7:08pm
I slowly started with the development box today:



The box should be finished by end of next week.
I´ll probably make some "fake horn" adapter to mimic real situation for mids. If everything works fine, I´ll continue with the horn and drivers. If not, I´ll try to mod my NDLs so one will fit with the magnet inside the chamber, or make custom phase plug, or even end the development. Time will tell.


Edited by Crashpc - 29 October 2017 at 7:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crashpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2017 at 8:04pm
So NDLs arrived.
http://www.picfront.org/d/9BNu
Stiff as *#ck! Hope it will manage the load around 100-200Hz after heavy EQ. Will have to tune these high.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crashpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2017 at 6:03pm
Okay, now I understand.
It will be hard for 12"s in V-slot to go 1000Hz. It will need to be very open.
Of course, positioning matters with the shape too. It will also depend on crossover frequency.
Where the V shape is (be it horizontal or vertical) there will be better directivity control. More and better. On the other two sides, you just have a tunnel ending with the enclosure(box). That will propably create bad baffle step (sensitivity difference at certain frequency) and even more issues. So you really have to do quite thorough engineering to get things right. My 8"s should be delivered today, so I´d like to start on real hardware. But I´m busy man. Overtimes, business trip abroad on monday, some help to others, celebrations, solving my second job issues, so the progress will propably be veery slow next 14 days or so.


Edited by Crashpc - 29 September 2017 at 6:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Natty_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2017 at 9:44am
my prev config:

200-1000--->12"
1000-5000hz--->2"

keep in mind that the 12" was deployed as pure low mid... now ive a kick section so less sense for all these reflex...
this solution have a very nice and flattern result, even after some "clio" measurement we was so happy. perfect phase, good balance.....

Watching 12mh32 spec its seem that need some boost from 150-200 to 450hz.

Im starting my sims using your suggestion and ill put some result out asap...
Just another question...is there any difference in V horziontal or V vertical?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crashpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2017 at 5:47pm
Hey Natty. I did´t really get the setup description you use, but whatever. :-)
I also don´t see how 12HPL76 lacks power at 800-1000Hz.
(see measurement here: http://www.prodance.cz/data/attachments/mereni_12HPL76.pdf ; )
12PE32 is very good and very sensitive driver, but it propably won´t keep up at lower frequencies around 100-200Hz, as it will need heavy boost there, and that will lead to hitting Xmax (and Xvar) barrier of that driver soon. It should do about okay, but just barely, if you won´t push it hard.
12MH32 is little different, but I would recommend it for your setup. It also has better Xmax and Xvar figures.
For horns, there is not many good and working designs where one 12" in a horn does mid band and goes to 100-ish Hz. For obvious reasons. It gets bigger, and harder to develop.

2x 12MH32 should do in the V-slot configuration.
While you can take some inspiration and starting point from my development, you need to know few details.
1) The more mouth area and the more open V, the better. I´d start at around of Sd value of both drivers. So your starting S3 value is rather around 1000.
2)You need as small S1 value as possible. But it´s hard to do with tighter V-slots, as there will be not much place for mounting the screws to the speaker and baffle at that small area.
To solve this, I actually expect the area large enaugh so it makes space for the mounting, but after mounting these screws, I will put something like "phaseplug" to make the area small (close to zero).
3) The inside cone volume creates something like additional chamber, or different shape to the horn. This again, would be bad for your frequency response. That way, if you sim your horn as conical, you don´t count with this additional volume. If you do count with it, the horn shape should be different, wider at S2. But that will mess the upper frequency response, where your driver should add to the mids. So you need the horn to be flatly concave. What you do to accomplish that, is that you fill the space by the bigger "phaseplug" going deep into the horn.
Similarly to the turbosound horns shapes.
https://www.soundbroker.com/dynImage/?listingPicid=35953
Maybe, different shape, copying the inner cones volume... I.E. Startrek ship shape :-)

This alone needs some development. Also while I use 8"s and everything is shorter, I might get into 900-100Hz territory with crossover frequency with slight (equalizable) dip in the that frequency. With 12"s, you might be in the 600ish Hz range, and that´s serious trouble with highly sensitive 12"s with high power handling. There is not many drivers being able to work in 1000-1500W box down to 600Hz. I guess you have a problem.
But sim away, maybe it will end up better.
Anyway it all needs to be developed and measured.
Wish you fun and some luck.



Edited by Crashpc - 28 September 2017 at 6:20pm
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_Natty_ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Natty_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2017 at 1:32pm
ok lots of contributors here! nice! Ill take a full read asap, very busy at works nowadays!

for now id like just to point how and why im looking for infos about this type of enclosure.
Its almost 10 years that i play with this mid config:

-2xreflex 12"
-1x 2" horn

all from 200hz to 5000hz.
The result is quite nice and ive found that putting 1, 2" over 2 12" is the right balance! otherwise too much or too less of something...

now i need to replace the mids. no way to no do that... dont ask me why pilz.
So my first attemp was about choose the right 12" driver:
-im using 12hpl76 very musical driver but maybe have some little lack of power around 800-1000hz
So new one!!!!
after a lot of reading on this forum ive decide to move to 12pe32 as seems one of the most used b&c speaker in horns. 
I phone my friend in the farm but i stop me badly saying that is an old and un-usefull driverd and putting my attention in the upgraded version 12mh32.
I take one and i start to sim to find an horn enclosure that can solve the problem of 2 speaker over 1 driver, and so puttin 1vs1 ;)
No way with my little knowledge! all the sims giving me bad bad result and big dip and hills!

So back to the 2 vs 1 solution Ive found this "V" loading solution that can solve the "space" problem, but now im not shure that 12mh32 is a good speaker for doing that... but fortunally ive seen the sim made by Crashpc View Drop Down  

can I use that as starting point for doing my sims?


cheers
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