General setting for biamp 2x15”+2” |
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pfly
Old Croc Joined: 25 October 2007 Location: Helsinki, Fin Status: Offline Points: 2828 |
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1) Measure on axis frequency and distortion response of 2x15" section
2) Measure on axis frequency and distortion response of 2" section 3)
Because you are looking for roughly 600-1200Hz crossover based on past
knowledge with similar components, measure horizontal off axis frequency
responses of both sections and look within this octave for frequency range where they
share the dispersion, ie have similar -6dB point compared to each
section's on axis response. 4) To make vertical dispersion as
good/even/without anomalies as it could, you should aim for as low crossover as possible but
you need to make it a compromise between sections having equal
horizontal dispersion over overlapping band and each section's
distortion behaviour. Generally it is wise to cross over high enough
before compression driver starts to distort trying to reach lower
frequencies. This would generally somewhat correlate with manufacturer's
recommendeded lowest crossover. 5) There are many other variables and things you could do. Should you correct both section's on axis responses to be as flat as they can around the bandwidth they are going to handle before doing everything else? Should you try to have gap or ovelap in the electronic crossover to make things better in acoustic realm? How do you compensate possible level differences between 2" and 15"? Just by adjusting the gain or maybe having some wide band shelf filter on 2" for example to tilt the basic tonality in some way? How about FIR filters if you have the option? TLDR; Crossover is decided with knowledge of distortion, amplitude and dispersion of each component.
Edited by pfly - 22 February 2019 at 3:56pm |
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
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And you need to measure at max output too, to ensure the box remains linear with the filters and limiters you settle on - otherwise you risk pattern changes as well as magnitude shifts.
Edited by toastyghost - 22 February 2019 at 3:11pm |
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snowflake
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2.5way can be achieved by wiring the woofers in series and putting a bypass capacitor on the bottom one so no need for a coil. It does reduce vertical beaming and moves aoustic centre of the mid closer to the horn.
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serioussound
Registered User Joined: 01 December 2013 Status: Offline Points: 443 |
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Oh man. I dont understand the half of what you guys are writing :)
I plugged the speakers in today. I put the crossover between horn and 15” to 1100Hz. I put the level on horn -10dB The speakers sound kind of harsh and the 15” are barely moving even if I put the HP on them down to 85 Hz. I maybe through in the towel of these or what is the best to do to tame the harshness? I dont have any measurment instruments only a driverack 260.
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ceharden
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Especially with those 15" they're never going to sound amazing but it should be possible to get them sounding usable. However it may require a bit of work on the processing.
Your best bet really is to try to find someone you could bribe with a few beers who has experience of setting up systems, who ideally has some basic measurement kit. Once someone has demonstrated some of the things you can do to tame them, you could probably do some tweaking yourself but it does sound like you might need some help on the ground just to get you headed in the right direction. Without knowing the cabinet tuning you'll probably be safe with a high pass as low as 50-60Hz. You can probably also put a bit of gentle gain in the 50-100Hz region to improve the low end a bit. Just working off the Delta15LFA specs, try adding an EQ point to the 15" section on the crossover, centred about 1.8kHz, Q of about 1.5, -6dB. You may also need to go below -10dB HF as the 15's are not very efficient. As I mentioned on a previous post, as a very rough starting point, try adding a 6dB/oct high shelf to the horn, about 6-8kHz and about +6dB. That should start to bring a bit of the very top end back. What you're probably hearing at the moment is that both the LF and HF may have large lumps in their responses around the 1-2kHz region. You could also try doing a non-symmetrical crossover where you actually introduce a gap. e.g. low pass the 15" at 800Hz and high pass the horn at 1200Hz. Those numbers might be well out but gives you some ideas of things to try. |
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serioussound
Registered User Joined: 01 December 2013 Status: Offline Points: 443 |
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I put the system up again and with cehardens setting it sounds better. One thought thou. I have some RCF Event 6000 stand next to just to have someting to compare to. Even if the RCF Event is driven totally passive they are crazy more effecient then the new dual 15" cabs talked about in this thread. How come there is such a big difference? The new dual 15" I ran through the driverack 260 does this in any way chahge things? The Event 6000 I put totally passive stright to a amplifier. The Event 6000 was driven by the EV P3000. The 15" in new cab another EV P3000 The 2" in new cab EV P 1200 |
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JonB67
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drivers all in phase?
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snowflake
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have you checked whether the 15s are wired in series or parallel? and that all the drivers are working?
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serioussound
Registered User Joined: 01 December 2013 Status: Offline Points: 443 |
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All drivers in phase and yes all drivers working..
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snowflake
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have you allowed for the lower gain of the ev P1200? assuming it has the same input sensitivity as the EV p3000 you will need to add 4dB compared to using the same amp on low and high.
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serioussound
Registered User Joined: 01 December 2013 Status: Offline Points: 443 |
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What do you mean?
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ceharden
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776 |
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I don't think a lack of gain on the HF would be a bad thing here! The P Series are internally configurable between 26dB gain, 0dbu or +6dBu sensitivity.
The best way to make sure the comparison is fair is run the Event 6000 and the 15's on the new cab on either side of one P3000. The drivers in the Event 6000 are just significantly more efficient than the Delta15LFA's which isn't difficult. The woofers in the RCF are the L15P530 which are at least 3dB if not more ahead of the Eminence. Plus the horn loaded midrange on the RCF is going to be much much better in both efficiency and quality once that takes over. Quite frankly I'm not surprised that the Event 6000 blows the Eminence loaded cab away. Edited by ceharden - 23 February 2019 at 7:10pm |
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