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Safetyman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Safetyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2019 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by confused.com confused.com wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by paulus paulus wrote:

tbh not all about budget i know people with good knowledge who have systems that have cost not much at all and sound excellent  


Do those same people just say ‘f it’ when asked to actually manage electricity that can kill people?
Got to say I'm with Kyle, Chris and Sean all the way on this one. My day job is with BIG electrics where 1000 amps is a tiddler. But there aren't many "generator bods" I would allow to design my temporary system having called many of them back to get things earthed properly more times than I ever should have needed to. As an example the earth cable under the tyre is not good enough, ever.
 There are a few very good outfits but they charge the proper rate for their work. Some things just need to be done properly and that comes with a price tag which is soon forgotten when you are up in front of the judge who's demanding what qualifications and experience you called upon when designing/installing/using the system that sent somebody to the promised land. 
  
 
 


In this case, I can only advise what I would do and suggest what my friends should do re their sound system / managing their events. However, the old saying of 'You can drag a horse to water, but you can't make it drink' runs true here. Ok, so the electrics were way over spec'd in this case, but someone else was in charge of the electrics, and got paid to do it professionally. All the rest of us were volunteers,inc the musos, and the event was funded entirely by the sound system owners, with any surplus proceeds going to a  local charity. They were going to do a much larger event , but the council would not let them use any of their land without having it properly fenced-off, expertly managed etc, as you would expect. There were sponsors involved, but the event would not have been a family affair, as the sponsors would have taken over the whole event, and made it into something completely outside their control and remit. The remit being that it must be for local people/families, and affordable. In the end, the event was free to enter, with sales of food, drink and merchandise covering the costs involved. A few hundred people, not 10's of thousands of people, with all the added 'complications' that would involve. The event may get larger in time but, for the moment it is more like a school fete, with added music by local bands.
Protect your hearing, and feel the music.



MU South East Roving Safety Rep.
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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 July 2019 at 8:39am
You're missing the point. Its nothing to do with having an oversize genny. Its that for a public event (large small free or paying makes no difference) you should have have a electrically qualified person as your point of contact to be asking these questions rather than an internet forum. 

They would be in charge of specifying and overseeing that the power supply was safe.  

No one minds the question, but given that you don't seem to have had that  point of contact people rightly voiced concerns.

Point two. No one ever has the money or time to do this or that.  As pointed out above this wont stand up in a court when you kill or maim someone.  You're still liable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Safetyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 July 2019 at 9:02am
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

You're missing the point. Its nothing to do with having an oversize genny. Its that for a public event (large small free or paying makes no difference) you should have have a electrically qualified person as your point of contact to be asking these questions rather than an internet forum. 

They would be in charge of specifying and overseeing that the power supply was safe.  

No one minds the question, but given that you don't seem to have had that  point of contact people rightly voiced concerns.

Point two. No one ever has the money or time to do this or that.  As pointed out above this wont stand up in a court when you kill or maim someone.  You're still liable.


Yes, I am aware of that but, as I said in a previous post I can only advise the people in charge, who did employ a professional genny hire company to deal with all the electrical needs, completely unbeknown to me, until a couple of days before. My role was merely to turn-up on the day, and help with the stage sound set-up etc.I did ask the questions, as on here, but was informed that everything was fine. The genny was properly earthed with a separate spike driven into the ground near the unit, the equipment used was first rate, inc all the wiring, distros etc. I can only assume that the guy in charge of the genny team was qualified in electrical installation , and mobile applications.
Protect your hearing, and feel the music.



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paulus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote paulus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 July 2019 at 11:43am
my point was aimed at the system itself and cost of it and how its sounds  nothing to do with the mains side of things pure audio quality i was on about gents as the thread was on about components  and costing etc at the time of my comment , of course i wasn't on about cost cutting on the safety side of things Wacko

Edited by paulus - 11 July 2019 at 11:45am
TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boxes-R-Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2019 at 2:25am
But your AMF pulled the cold standby in in 20Secs right...

2 hours for an airlock? Stroll on the machine was junk!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boxes-R-Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2019 at 2:26am
O,

O,

O,

OK, PMSL!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boxes-R-Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2019 at 2:34am
Read JonB67's post again, 

NO ONE cares that the "dog ate your homework" you take on event, you either take an EIC from the contractor to your point of supply ( expect L-N PSC, L-E PSC, V L-N, V N-E to be highlight in this scenario) I would also expect a 100mA 100mS Residual device to be presented and tested on your supply base on you will provide 30mA 30mS ( or 10mA if required) on your final leg.

If you don't have signed off feed then simply don't connect, the promoter then has to deal, with a small (60KVa) machine worry about any contractor not carrying a spare machine (either sync'd or AMF'd) and also understand without a load bank you will have CRAP mains.

If you provide the machines and you are reading this STOP!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2019 at 6:23am
Edit- sorry didnt read it all before posting, too early int morning ha.


Edited by Mikkel - 12 July 2019 at 6:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Safetyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2019 at 8:22am
Originally posted by Boxes-R-Blue Boxes-R-Blue wrote:

But your AMF pulled the cold standby in in 20Secs right...

2 hours for an airlock? Stroll on the machine was junk!


I reckon this 100kva unit had not been used for some time, possibly weeks, and the vapour lock was the result of it being left in the sun for all of that time. They obviously did not take the trouble to make sure that it was fully operational before they delivered it. The two hours included building the staging once the canopy had been inflated, and having to recharge the on-board batteries with the tow vehicle, which had been completely flattened. So, that put the sound crew back by 2 hours, which meant a very rushed, late, start instead of a controlled set-up, with sound check. Only one hour late, but the punters were getting very restless by that time........


Edited by Safetyman - 12 July 2019 at 8:46am
Protect your hearing, and feel the music.



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imageoven View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote imageoven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2019 at 11:00am
To be fair to 'Safetyman', the sound provider asked him for advice on how much current his (the providers not Safetymans) system was likely to draw, in order to pass this information onto the promoter / gennerator supply company. 'Safetyman' came here to ask for advice on this, not which generator to use or anything else, it's a bit unfair to berate him for not employing an electrician.

Yes a set up like this requires design, testing, and sign off by a competant person, but the responsibility for ensuring someone does this is with the person controlling the event.
Keep pushing on, things are gonna get better.
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Safetyman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Safetyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2019 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by imageoven imageoven wrote:

To be fair to 'Safetyman', the sound provider asked him for advice on how much current his (the providers not Safetymans) system was likely to draw, in order to pass this information onto the promoter / gennerator supply company. 'Safetyman' came here to ask for advice on this, not which generator to use or anything else, it's a bit unfair to berate him for not employing an electrician.

Yes a set up like this requires design, testing, and sign off by a competant person, but the responsibility for ensuring someone does this is with the person controlling the event.


Yes, quite correct, thank you. I can only give advice to those who ask me, when I have found out the answers. As you said, I have absolutely no control over the persons running the events. This forum is very good for sound/technical advice, hence my  continued involvement. It appears to be the old, old story of 'don't worry about any of it as it will not happen to us '. Unfortunately, as we all know that it can/ and does happen on occasion when someone gets injured . And, then the s..t hits the fan, and everybody blames everyone else.
Protect your hearing, and feel the music.



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MattStolton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2019 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by Safetyman Safetyman wrote:


I can only assume that the guy in charge of the genny team was qualified in electrical installation , and mobile applications.


Well that makes someone a complete lady flaps then, doesn't it?

Or was he just some bloke from a plant hire company who delivers stuff for a living, and faffed about with it, until it sort of worked.
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"
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