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Building Our First Dub Sound System - DUB Focus

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valve head777 View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2025 at 10:09pm
I have to admit I'm a bit confused. 
Is the aim to hear the frequency separation as in bass (up to no more than 90-100 hz) then mid then chippers (tops)? Or is it to have frequency separation via control to achieve a completely full frequency response where you cannot hear the different elements on their own within the sound.
To clarify. I started listening to systems in the mid 80s. The preamps used were mostly 3way. Barracuda had 4 way where the bass was split to have hi bass and then sub. The mid and tops were still very separate. As things evolved through the years, the 'holes' in the sound were filled in by adding different frequency bands and in my opinion the the unique sound of a reggae soundsystem was beginning to get lost and systems began to sound similar to eachother and much more like generic pa systems. Its the gaps in the frequency response that defined a reggae system. Much as pa guys would shake their heads.
What is it you are trying to achieve? You definitely want sub. You seem to want separation. If you add hi bass, this overlaps with the bass part of vocals, organs, low piano etc. Played loud this, to me, becomes aggressive and fatiguing especially when standing next to the stack. Traditionally the mid would just about reproduce these frequencies and be stacked in a way that was above people's heads. So you could still hear this low part of the mid but never feel it. 
To get hi bass but leave out the low frequency part of the mid ( the low part of the voice, organ, piano etc) the cutoff slope needs to be really steep, high (100-200hz) and very narrow. 
Just to reiterate, I'm talking about reggae soundsystem alone which as mentioned is an artwork in its own right and does not obey the same rules public address systems run by.
A good 3 way pre can still sound very good. If you want control of every frequency band to make the system play with no gaps in the frequency response, then you will achieve a pa sound. 
To me, the idea of a reggae sound is to be able to stand by the stack and be shaken by sub, but not punished by fatiguing frequencies and be able to stand there all night long. 
The elders might, I hope, understand what I'm getting at. The younguns haven't really had a chance to experience what a good original sound used to be like.


Edited by valve head777 - 14 April 2025 at 10:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Line Array Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2025 at 10:53pm
Originally posted by SystemSubverted SystemSubverted wrote:

For example check out this system 

Originally posted by madboffin madboffin wrote:

For those who are not familiar with the concept / art form, the crossover and preamp is used as an effects device and the system is played like a musical instrument, extensively modifying the programme material. 5-way systems are good for this.

i understand now.  thanks for explaining - i was wondering about it since i joined this forum.  it's actually fascinating.

so it's like "guitar cabs" in western music where the cab isn't supposed to be accurate or clean - but to work synergistically with the guitar as one musical instrument.

you know i was worried about this forum until now, but not anymore.  this forum will be fine because there is nowhere else on the internet for this type of stuff.

i apologize to the OP and everybody else in the scene for my ignorance of the subject.

i now also realize i have made a lot of stupid comments about scoops and bullets before, and i apologize for those as well.

i guess it's similar ( but different ! ) to Car Audio culture, with which i am more familiar as i used to build DIY systems for my car when i was young, so i can understand it in principle, i just didn't know.

in Car Audio it was more about getting sound that is "impressive" than anything else.

in Hi-Fi it's about sound that is "pleasing / revealing"

in studio monitors it's about "accurate / revealing "

in PA / prosound i guess it's kind of like a combination of the above 3 ...

i'm going to leave the dub stuff to people who understand it better than me.  i will also never understand the guitar cabs either.  but it is 100% valid.  i again apologize for trying to attribute these types of sound systems to ignorance when i was the one ignorant.

i just hope the day never comes when i also have to apologize to all the people i have insulted on every other forum for the kinds of strange speakers they build there like fullrange speakers or other miniature speakers with like 3" woofers.

i mean it's easy to study the science and use it to achieve objective goals ... but the goals are not objective.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2025 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by Line Array Line Array wrote:

Originally posted by SystemSubverted SystemSubverted wrote:

For example check out this system 

Originally posted by madboffin madboffin wrote:

For those who are not familiar with the concept / art form, the crossover and preamp is used as an effects device and the system is played like a musical instrument, extensively modifying the programme material. 5-way systems are good for this.

i understand now.  thanks for explaining - i was wondering about it since i joined this forum.  it's actually fascinating.

so it's like "guitar cabs" in western music where the cab isn't supposed to be accurate or clean - but to work synergistically with the guitar as one musical instrument.

you know i was worried about this forum until now, but not anymore.  this forum will be fine because there is nowhere else on the internet for this type of stuff.

i apologize to the OP and everybody else in the scene for my ignorance of the subject.

i now also realize i have made a lot of stupid comments about scoops and bullets before, and i apologize for those as well.

i guess it's similar ( but different ! ) to Car Audio culture, with which i am more familiar as i used to build DIY systems for my car when i was young, so i can understand it in principle, i just didn't know.

in Car Audio it was more about getting sound that is "impressive" than anything else.

in Hi-Fi it's about sound that is "pleasing / revealing"

in studio monitors it's about "accurate / revealing "

in PA / prosound i guess it's kind of like a combination of the above 3 ...

i'm going to leave the dub stuff to people who understand it better than me.  i will also never understand the guitar cabs either.  but it is 100% valid.  i again apologize for trying to attribute these types of sound systems to ignorance when i was the one ignorant.

i just hope the day never comes when i also have to apologize to all the people i have insulted on every other forum for the kinds of strange speakers they build there like fullrange speakers or other miniature speakers with like 3" woofers.

i mean it's easy to study the science and use it to achieve objective goals ... but the goals are not objective.




The beauty of life and artforms are its diversity. 
Thankyou for recognising this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SystemSubverted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2025 at 3:51pm
Thank you all for your relpies, but can we get back to the usual topic again? :D
I realy need help and I am very greatful for every little help.

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Based on the above setup, A pair of Double Eighteens to pick up where those Scoops leave off would give you the High Fidelity Sound you are seeking.

Thanks. thats exactly the plan, but we don't know where to start: Which driver? How to choose the right driver? Which Sub-Bin is the best for Dub?
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

The link below should help you along the way... https://speakerlite.com/subwoofer--calculator/tab-graphs - https://speakerboxlite.com/subwoofer-box-calculator/tab-graphs

Looks interesting... don't get how to use it yet, because I dont know which driver I should choose, but looks very intersting!
Originally posted by valve head777 valve head777 wrote:

I have to admit I'm a bit confused. 
Is the aim to hear the frequency separation as in bass (up to no more than 90-100 hz) then mid then chippers (tops)? Or is it to have frequency separation via control to achieve a completely full frequency response where you cannot hear the different elements on their own within the sound.


Valve, both!
We want a seperation for the frequencies and then we want to control the different speakers with the different frequencies to get the most out of the Soundsystem and operate how it's usual in Reggae/Dub/Soundsystem-culture.
For example the seperation like this: Subbass 20 Hz - 80 Hz. Bass 80 Hz - 500 Hz, Midrange 500 Hz - 5k Hz, Tops/Highs/Tweeter 5k Hz - 20k Hz




Edited by SystemSubverted - 15 April 2025 at 3:55pm
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valve head777 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2025 at 5:26pm
Bass 100 up to  500 hz is the fatiguing frequency when loud and in my opinion muddies the sound. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SystemSubverted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2025 at 10:07am
Originally posted by valve head777 valve head777 wrote:

Bass 100 up to  500 hz is the fatiguing frequency when loud and in my opinion muddies the sound. 


So you mean Bass 100 - 300 hz is good enough?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2025 at 10:41am
I'd start to seriously attenuate ie really drop the volume down for that frequency at 150hz. 
Id suggest playing with an equaliser and moving one band at a time to hear what the frequencies sound like. That way you get a feel of the more aggressive bands and how you might deal with them in a soundsystem setting. 
Our hearing response actually changes as sound pressure levels go up.
The aggressive mid to top frequencies are around 8k
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valve head777 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2025 at 1:37pm
As for sub bin, the quality and weight from decent powered double 18s is great. We have used 21" super scoops which i was very happy with except moving them around. I personally like the extra cone and voice coils in doubles, because if you get some growl (from either the pre or amp), they'll produce that better. 
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