How low do they go

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   Ok, so reflex cab is going to hit lower notes than a horn loaded with same sized driver(s), but reflex isn't going to be as loud as horn.

Someone sais here that X15 would hit something like 60hz.

I'd imagine X12 would do 60-80hz and X10 70-100hz

How low are they actually tuned?

I'd also imagine that X12 is the loudest of the three.

I can't really justify building the X15, since 15" isn't going to do upper mid nicely enough and the cab is kind of big. I find the only downside in X10 that it may not have as much output as the other two? How loud are they actually? I think the two ten inchers in X10 are going to do upper mid (vocal clarity etc) way more nicely than X12 or X15. If X10 goes down to say, 80hz it will cross nicely with even subwoofers like X1, so what is the point of X15?

Your thoughts? 

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pfly Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 25 October 2007 Location: Helsinki, Fin Status: Offline Points: 2827	Post Options Post Reply Quote pfly Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: How low do they go Posted: 19 March 2008 at 3:32am
	Ok, so reflex cab is going to hit lower notes than a horn loaded with same sized driver(s), but reflex isn't going to be as loud as horn. Someone sais here that X15 would hit something like 60hz. I'd imagine X12 would do 60-80hz and X10 70-100hz How low are they actually tuned? I'd also imagine that X12 is the loudest of the three. I can't really justify building the X15, since 15" isn't going to do upper mid nicely enough and the cab is kind of big. I find the only downside in X10 that it may not have as much output as the other two? How loud are they actually? I think the two ten inchers in X10 are going to do upper mid (vocal clarity etc) way more nicely than X12 or X15. If X10 goes down to say, 80hz it will cross nicely with even subwoofers like X1, so what is the point of X15? Your thoughts?

darkmatter Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 26 February 2005 Location: LDN Status: Offline Points: 2419	Post Options Post Reply Quote darkmatter Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 March 2008 at 4:32pm
	Maybe the best way to do it would be to work out what you want, then decide on drivers and model them in x12, then slightly tweak the design to get the extension / efficiency / size you're happy with. Bit more effort but possibly more rewarding. Google sketchup makes it really easy to calculate volumes too, especially if you use slot instead of circular ports. Then again I might change my mind on this if I build mine and it sounds terrible :P

pfly Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 25 October 2007 Location: Helsinki, Fin Status: Offline Points: 2827	Post Options Post Reply Quote pfly Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 March 2008 at 8:52pm
	I'm not going to build anything, yet, just wondering stuff. And I'm talking about standard X10, X12 and X15 with driver's they're designed for.

tb_mike Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 01 October 2004 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 2744	Post Options Post Reply Quote tb_mike Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 March 2008 at 12:26am
	I dont know what their tuned to but I think your guestimations are probably right. 'Vocal clarity' depends really on the upper response of the 10",through all of its cone modes, and how well the compression driver operates and integrates with it. So it really depends. All things being equal, the 10" and 12" versions should sound better than the 15". All your doing is making the modes occur at a higher frequency. This may push them into the critical voice band. But then using the wrong 15" which has no flux shorting ring,and has more modal problems at the top end near 1.4khz is going to sound bad. So really you have to hear them all setup correctly first

Jhodas Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 04 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1244	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jhodas Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 March 2008 at 12:06am
	One problem with all drivers above say 8" is that they start to beam significantly above around 1KHz. Have a look at the plots on 18sound. The smaller the driver the less the effect. there's not much difference between 10 and 12, bit more between 12 and 15. With the x12 however, the effect should be reduced.
	Until the Lions have their own historians, tales of hunting will always glorify the hunter.

pfly Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 25 October 2007 Location: Helsinki, Fin Status: Offline Points: 2827	Post Options Post Reply Quote pfly Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 March 2008 at 10:03am
	Hmmm... How about building individual baffles for both of the twelves and aiming them slightly, couple degrees, one to the right and another to the left? :)

tb_mike Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 01 October 2004 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 2744	Post Options Post Reply Quote tb_mike Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 March 2008 at 1:12am
	Thats usually part of the design - if its worked with. See 'improvements in monitor design www.dkbeele.com The woofer will have a narrowing pattern with increasing frequency- up to the xover point,where the HF horn has similar pattern[set by the horn flare walls],which remains constant for a few octaves through the voice range,and sometimes squeezes inwards above 10khz.Note that this method definately operates your 15"s etc through the cone mode range. Adding a mid horn ,say an 8" or 6" avoids this but complicates. You can see this on measurements of JBL,old altec, turbosound pdf files. Its easier to see on a beamwidth vs frequency chart. A bunch of polar plots on another doesnt show it clearly.