Punishers - matching bass bins and mid tops

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   Hi all, I'm a new member to this forum but Ive been reading it for years.
Now its my turn to ask a few questions.

Recently we have been building a rig of punishers, i just love the sound they make! We currently have 4 and are building 4 more (all ciare 12.00sw loaded). I want to make some bass bins that really cover the lowest bass, from 30hz up to around 60hz. I really like the look of the USB and the fact its dual loaded which keeps build costs down, but I'm not sure if the USB is going to cover those frequencies well.
I'm not to fond of the bigger folded horns (WSX, invader, 1850, lab horns) due to the fact that im not very big and moving them is major effort, i know the USB is big too but there will be less of them compared to if i was to build single 18" horns.

This is so i can run my punishers in the area of punchy bass (50hz to 110hz) instead of sub bass.

We are thinking of martin audio blackline tops or turbosound flashlights.

The whole system will eventually be run off Crown XTI and XTI2 amps so i can eliminate the digital crossover which is currently a DBX driverack PA.

Basically what im asking is, what is the best sub bass bin to run under 8 punishers?

If I'm just talking shit then please let me know, i haven't been in this business for long but i started a new job as a theater sound and lighting engineer 9 months ago so I'm still learning!

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Tocooltom Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 07 March 2011 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1370	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tocooltom Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Punishers - matching bass bins and mid tops Posted: 01 June 2011 at 1:07pm
	Hi all, I'm a new member to this forum but Ive been reading it for years. Now its my turn to ask a few questions. Recently we have been building a rig of punishers, i just love the sound they make! We currently have 4 and are building 4 more (all ciare 12.00sw loaded). I want to make some bass bins that really cover the lowest bass, from 30hz up to around 60hz. I really like the look of the USB and the fact its dual loaded which keeps build costs down, but I'm not sure if the USB is going to cover those frequencies well. I'm not to fond of the bigger folded horns (WSX, invader, 1850, lab horns) due to the fact that im not very big and moving them is major effort, i know the USB is big too but there will be less of them compared to if i was to build single 18" horns. This is so i can run my punishers in the area of punchy bass (50hz to 110hz) instead of sub bass. We are thinking of martin audio blackline tops or turbosound flashlights. The whole system will eventually be run off Crown XTI and XTI2 amps so i can eliminate the digital crossover which is currently a DBX driverack PA. Basically what im asking is, what is the best sub bass bin to run under 8 punishers? If I'm just talking shit then please let me know, i haven't been in this business for long but i started a new job as a theater sound and lighting engineer 9 months ago so I'm still learning!

JDCutta Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 24 June 2010 Location: North Lincs Status: Offline Points: 555	Post Options Post Reply Quote JDCutta Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 June 2011 at 1:23pm
	Will a stack of 8 punishers not get you down to the 35hz region? Just found this: http://forum.speakerplans.com/how-low-do-ounishers-go-in-stacks_topic7011.html Edited by JDCutta - 01 June 2011 at 1:30pm

JDCutta Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 24 June 2010 Location: North Lincs Status: Offline Points: 555	Post Options Post Reply Quote JDCutta Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 June 2011 at 1:28pm
	If you are wanting to drop lower than punishers, I would probably sell the punishers, and look at building labs, Hogs, OR check this thread out: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/178029-c-e-x-pa-flat- 30-ft30-pa-th-awesomeness.html Seems a waste of money to build a cab just to cover 30-60, and I don't no any cabs that will get that response and spl to keep up with punishers that aren't huge. Hope that helps

Tocooltom Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 07 March 2011 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1370	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tocooltom Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 June 2011 at 1:47pm
	hmmm im still thinking! Yeh the punishers do technically go that low but i don't want to be abusing all my punishers to get that kind of output. I wanted to build some bins that are big enough to really hit the low notes, ive found with my punishers that the punchy bass they make is better than the low end bass. Also i wanted the option to use either or both bass bins with the tops so i can be flexible when doing linkups with other rigs. We do a lot of these kind of events and it helps to have the option of different bins. I did think about the lab horns but the cost is high and they are big cabs a bit like the USBs. I looked at hogs too, my mates has a couple and they are pretty good except i dont like the look they have, i like the fully folded look and the hogs don't quite cut it.

Contour Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 03 March 2004 Status: Online Points: 677	Post Options Post Reply Quote Contour Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 June 2011 at 7:26pm
	Hello, Put 4-6 Punishers in one stack and use some EQ down low to boost the very low end. This will bring you down to 35-40Hz no problem, that is sufficient for almost all kind of music. The Ciare 12.00SW has an enormous lineair x-max of 11.5mm one way. Just put in enough power (>1000W preffered) and the stack of 4-6 Punishers will make your trousers move from the air displacement. Also with sufficient power standing in front of a stack of 4-6 Punishers should give you some problems with breathing normally, if not, you might want to put in some more watts. Best regards, Walt

tomschute Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 15 May 2006 Location: Mid Wales Status: Offline Points: 1817	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomschute Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 June 2011 at 9:18pm
	Put more than 1000 watts in and wait for the burning smell! Assume the drivers are 800 watt RMS or get ready to shell out! You have an optimsed cab there designed to do a job - which is 'to do bass'. You will not be disappointed with 8 puns. If you want sub + kick, build sub + kick... X1/HD or Lab/USB etc. Don;t ruin a good design. I'd go for a top that'll meet them, XTRO / RES 2/3/4 or Blackline basically 3 way style cab and you have a perfectly matched 2 cab system. Wait till you run all 8 before you make any commitments! Tom
	Out to lunch... stableaudio@hotmail.co.uk www.stableaudio.co.uk Speaker Building Services

pfly Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 25 October 2007 Location: Helsinki, Fin Status: Offline Points: 2827	Post Options Post Reply Quote pfly Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 June 2011 at 9:51pm
	Punisher is so compact design that with four boxes mouth isn't big enough to support 40hz area.

space-face Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 11 September 2008 Location: E5 Status: Offline Points: 439	Post Options Post Reply Quote space-face Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 June 2011 at 10:35pm
	+1 for wait till you hear a stack of 8 with horn mouths all together (Can turn the stack sideways if it's too high for you) off a big amp. If you're still not satisfied sell them and start again. I used to have some blackline H3's over punishers and the kick could keep up with 6 but struggled with 8.

Tocooltom Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 07 March 2011 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1370	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tocooltom Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 June 2011 at 11:50am
	How many mid tops did you use over 6 puns?

Turbulence Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 19 March 2008 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 504	Post Options Post Reply Quote Turbulence Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 June 2011 at 8:32pm
	I use fk1 res4s with my punishers and love it! Had 12 punishers in 2 stacks of 6 the weekend before last at lakota. ran them from 39-100 through infinite8 amps and was easily enough sub! could really feel the air move!

Tocooltom Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 07 March 2011 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1370	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tocooltom Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 June 2011 at 12:14pm
	You wouldnt happen to be Trauma sounsystem would you? Anyways, ive had a bit of a change of heart. From what you are all saying i think i should biuld more punishers because that will give me the sub bass im looking for. Ive seen Illex's x-tro style kick bin he has designed and im thinking of biulding atleast 4 to sit ontop of my punishers. Im pretty sure im not going to biuld Xtros as i want some pro audio sitting ontop so this kick bin should fill the gap nicely.