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Can any1 confirm the horn length of 1850

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goliath View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goliath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Can any1 confirm the horn length of 1850
    Posted: 12 October 2010 at 12:24pm
Iv seen alot of different lengths that people have calculated and was wondering what the CORRECT length is.
Iv seen
1600mm
1800mm
1860mm
2110mm
2344mm

Are any of these correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2010 at 12:46pm
The reason theres funny numbers going around is that probably more than one of the numbers are correct, but for different things. Theres physical length which isn't the same as effective length. Depends why you need to know really.
Don't test the champignon sound
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goliath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goliath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2010 at 12:55pm
Just so I can work out how much delay i need to add to the stuff that sits on top of them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake_Fielder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2010 at 1:16pm
1.6m is generally used. im pretty sure thats 4.6ms if i remember correctly.
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goliath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goliath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2010 at 1:20pm
Wicked cheers man.

So basically i add 4.6ms to the delay time of everything else that sits ontop of the 1850's.

Is that right?
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biotec View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biotec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2010 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by goliath goliath wrote:

Wicked cheers man.

So basically i add 4.6ms to the delay time of everything else that sits ontop of the 1850's.

Is that right?
 
It's about 4.66ms for 1.6m but you will need to subtract the delay of any speaker on top of the 1850 from that (provided they have a shorter path length/delay).
 
Say you have a mid horn with a 30cm path length; the delay on that is about 0.87ms, so the delay applied to the mid-horn is 4.66-0.87 = 3.79ms
 
Unfortunately it is not that simple. All speakers have what is called a 'group delay' regardless of the physical distance to the fron of the cabinet, this is also a delay but is a function of the type of speaker (BP/horn/reflex/sealed, etc) and the tuning. Even if you used the best tape measure in the world to calculate your delays, they would still be wrong, becasue you would not have factored in the group delay.
 
Unfortunately it is difficult to calculate group delay accurately, and so it is general practice to get the delay in the right ballpark through the type of calculation I did above, and then fine tuning the delays by ear to account for factors such as group delay.
 
If you learn how to use a measurement programme like SMAART, it can do it all for you, but I find it easier and quicker to do it by ear using the sine wave method. It is explained elsewhere on the forum but essentially you do the following:
 
1. play a sinewave at the crossover frequency between the two cabs you are setting the delay for, say an 1850 and a 12inch mid-horn.
2. Invert the mid-horn using your ultradrive/xta/driverack/minidrive, etc.
3. Get the delay of the mid-horn into the rough ballpark you calculated from the physical path lengths, and sweep the delay up and done, going backwards and forwards accross the approximate delay you think should be applied to the cabinet.
4. You should hear the volume of the sinewave going up and down, keep playing with the delay looking for the quietest point in the sweep.
5. When you are certain you have the quietest point, invert the mid-horn back to normal polarity and you should have the perfect delay.
6. If you are feelign anal, you could do the same again, but this time inverting the 1850. The correct delay this time will be slightly different. Any point between the 1st and 2nd delay times should be about right.
 
 
 
 
 
me so horny, me love you long throw.
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goliath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goliath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2010 at 2:04pm
Brilliant Biotec.
Ill have a play about with the sinewve method when I get a chance.

Once i have got the delay right between the 1850 and 718 (that sits on top of the 1850) I just ADD this to the midtops. Is this correct
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goliath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2010 at 2:11pm
I got the correct delay times from Turbosound today for the 718's and the 760's
which is
12"= 3.875
6.5"= 3.85
1"= 3.906

So this delays the 760's to the 718's.
Then I just add what ever the delay between the 1850's and 718's to the rest.
Correct?

sorry about all of this just wanna make sure im right
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake_Fielder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2010 at 2:25pm
if these are your times;
1 = 3.906
6.5 = 3.85
12= 3.875
18 = 4.66
 
then the 1 will be delayed 4.66 - 3.906 = 0.754ms
the 6.5 will be delayed 4.66 - 3.85 = 0.81ms
the 12 will be 4.66 - 3.875 = 0.785ms
and the 1850s = 0ms
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goliath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goliath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2010 at 2:30pm
OK so the 718's will be 4.66? as this sits above the 1850's
then the calculation for the 760's are what you have just stated

Edited by goliath - 12 October 2010 at 2:42pm
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