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enclosure for DaytonAudio RS75T-8 (WinISD)

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Matt Clara View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 November 2017 at 4:05pm
I've read a lot of the recommended stuff and realize I'm in way way way over my head.  All I wanted to do was build a simple bluetooth speaker for my nephew for Christmas.  I do some woodworking, so I can make it look nice, just wanted to pop in a speaker/bluetooth/battery and be done.  That's not how this works, though, is it?

The DaytonAudio RS75T-8 3" full-range, 15 watt 8 ohm speaker was recommended to me for this purpose based on the amplifier specs, so I bought some of those (I want to build more than one) and started researching what size enclosure would work best, did a lot of reading, and now I'm thinking two of these drivers, L/R, in a small enclosure similar to lots of the DIY stuff I see out there, like this: 

So I downloaded WinISD an in put all the data I had on the drivers and find that the suggested box is ported, 250 cu inches, with a 93 inch long vent, tuned at ~50Hz.  That seems crazy big for such a small driver.  So I ran ithe driver in WinISD with a sealed enclosure, and the size is down to a more manageable 57 cu inches, but that's tuned at 206Hz, which, I don't know what that means, really, but it seems high.  Plus, sealed isn't recommended.

Any suggestions?

The driver specs are here: http://www.daytonaudio.com/specs/specsheet.php?prod=295-336

And I've uploaded http://169.53.234.202/gs/medias-testgallery/DaytonAudio_RS75T-8.zip - the WinISD wrd driver file here if anyone wants to have a look.

Thanks!
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Hemisphere View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2017 at 4:43pm
Unfortunately you received a poor recommendation of driver, so you're going to be rather stuck if you're absolutely set on using these. Is it too late for you to send it back and buy different drivers?

It has an Fs of 189Hz. You really need your driver to be at or around (or ideally under) 100Hz to get anything approaching bass in an enclosure of a reasonable size.

So give up on the idea of 50Hz. 120Hz is the best you can hope for and will give a solid bass punch as so much music centres the kick and bassline around that mark anyway. It'll struggle with dub and reggae music but the only thing you can do about that is to use a harmonic exciter plugin/filter like MaxxBass.

It's also only 84.3dB sensitive so it won't be very loud. You can do a lot better than that for the same size and weight driver.

If you're set on using them though, your best bet is a 2 litre box tuned to 120Hz (a 3x3cm square vent, 6.85cm long, but remembering WinISD tends to overestimate port length. It may need to be closer to 6cm, but you should hand tune the port if possible.

How well it will perform will depend a lot on how Dayton rates their driver's excursion, but I think they use a fairly optimistic calculation, so when it says 1.3mm on the spec sheet, it's going to be sounding pretty rough if it goes much above that.

For casual boombox use you might be able to tolerate the occasional 2mm peak, but even this would mean a maximum amp input of about 5w per driver, and you'll need to run a high pass at 110Hz to protect against the 3mm excursion peak at 95Hz.

This will yield 98.5dB at 120Hz and 100dB at 240Hz, which is actually quite respectable for a 2 litre boombox. It should sound excellent and give many store bought alternatives a run for their money.

If you're not able to run it with a high pass for whatever reason (keeping in mind that software based  filters or even pre-processing of audio files is an option if you haven't got a hardware based solution) then you'll need to limit the input to less than 2.5w per driver, losing 3dB from the previous SPL figures.

You're right that having an all-in-one electronics solution isn't generally how it works, but there are options. Sure Electronics offers all-in-one solutions with battery management and bluetooth (the JAB line of system boards), and user Lutkevld on this forum is currently designing a similar system which is looking very promising, but is still in the prototyping stages and probably won't be available before Christmas.

Shipping from China for the Sure board may be a bit touch and go also, but Parts Express sometimes stock their products so may be worth a look.

Edit: Actually you get a slightly better response if you tune it to 132Hz. Same vent but 5.25cm (or a little shorter most likely - again the best thing is to hand tune, keep shaving the mm off until you get the sound you like).

You'll lose a touch of bass extension but get an even stronger 120Hz (99.6dB) and stronger 240Hz (101dB), and a flatter overall bass response, with 5.5w input per driver for a 2mm excursion peak.


Edited by Hemisphere - 19 November 2017 at 4:50pm
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Matt Clara View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Clara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2017 at 5:09pm
Thanks!  Can you recommend another driver?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Clara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2017 at 5:33pm
Little more info: this is the  bluetooth amp/receiver I ordered: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01469WQ66


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2017 at 6:47pm
What would you say is your maximum enclosure size? If you want to get anything below 100Hz in less than 3 litres at high volume your options are limited. 

A nifty solution if you want to achieve some actual bass response and are willing to stretch to a 5 litre enclosure would be a pair of P Audio SN3-30N (which I believe at one stage, possibly no longer, was the driver used in the very popular Minirig portable speaker).

Vented to 93Hz with 16.5w of input per driver, these will produce 105dB at 120Hz, but they'll also produce 102.5dB at 83Hz, so you're starting to look at some genuine bass presence with these, especially when used indoors and corner loaded.

The trouble with this driver is getting hold of them. I don't know where to get them. Blue Aran used to sell them, but not anymore: http://speakershop.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?product=P-Audio_SN3-30N_30W_3_inch_Loudspeaker_Driver&id=PAUSN330N ;
(not very useful to you in the US though)

This South African site seems to stock them, but again maybe not much use to you: http://www.pqsound.co.za/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1342

If you're willing to sacrifice volume for bass extension then your options will open up, but I'm not familiar enough with the options to make a decent recommendation. Tangband have some interesting full range drivers so you should have a look at them, and maybe think about some of the larger offerings from Dayton - their 4 and 5" drivers ie.

Your amp will probably drive about 10w per channel into 8ohms with a 12v battery, but that can be increased to 20w if you use a 4ohm driver. So, optimally I would recommend two of the P Audios, 4ohm version. If you can't find those then you have another option which is the P Audio  PA-20K4:


These are actually very similar to the SN3-30N. Perhaps even better in some ways, but I think it's more or less the older/cheaper version of the same driver.

5 litre box, 103.5dB at 83Hz with 16.5w of input per driver. Even if you can't find these in the States I would consider importing.

If a smaller box size is important to you, these would still be preferable for their sheer output potential. In a 2 litre box tuned to 116.7Hz (3.5 x 3cm with 6.5cm or less vent length), a pair of these will output 105.5dB at 120Hz and 108.5dB at 240Hz, and will make full use of the 40w output potential of your amplifier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2017 at 6:57pm
You should consider that my recommendations are biased in favour of getting real bass response or high SPL. 8dB is a lot louder though. You're looking at a toss up between being almost twice as loud with my recommendation, or almost 3 times a much battery life with what you have now.

The reason I would err towards louder is you can buy a spare battery later if you find you need it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Clara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2017 at 7:45pm
Thank you again.  Unfortunately, it doesn't appear P Audio is available in the US.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote APW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2017 at 8:15pm
How about the FAITAL PRO 3FE25.... good sounding, well respected, cheap little driver and more efficient than the Dayton and p-audio drivers mentioned above.....

..... Plus its available in the US!!
http://www.usspeaker.com/faital%20pro-3fe25-1.htm

or its neo brother.
http://www.usspeaker.com/faital%20pro-3fe22-1.htm


Edited by APW - 19 November 2017 at 8:16pm
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