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2 tham 15, reflex, bp, or? instead of the w-bin

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Jo bg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2018 at 9:22am
I don't think you could fit 4 18 and 4 15 drivers in the space of 2 wbins as the OP... Unless you do Rog style multi chamber bandpass cabinet, but seems over the op - or mine - knowledge level....
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Angelow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angelow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2018 at 11:24am
I could do 6 sub 18.
For larger parties I could then rent a big van and do so:
mid top
w-bin
2 or 3x18

at home I also have tham 12 cabinets that I never finished, I tried to use it with a 12hpl76 but immediately went into cone desplacement: D, I could use them as a kick? and put 2 sub 18 under :)

I could also make a double 18 "tilted to save space like the tc28 of rcf, is it a good idea?



Originally posted by Jo bg Jo bg wrote:

I don't think you could fit 4 18 and 4 15 drivers in the space of 2 wbins as the OP... Unless you do Rog style multi chamber bandpass cabinet, but seems over the op - or mine - knowledge level....
with a plan already made yes: D


edit:
here in my city there are rcf ready for good price :)

https://www.mercatinomusicale.com/mm/a_rcf-tts28_id5641345.html


Edited by Angelow - 21 June 2018 at 11:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2018 at 1:08pm
let us help you… you stated that the new sub could be maximum 20 percent bigger than your W bin, now you say you are going with 6 sub 18? are you sure it is gonna fit in your van?
how many liters are your bins now? i don't think you'll get far less than 200 liters total for each single 18 sub.

tham are tapped horns and will not work well to 180, the upper reponse is very ragged, like you would expect.


did you check the specs of the rcf subs on sale? do they meet your needs of going lower and louder?

again try to rationalize your needs and go for them... you said space is an issue and must go lower and louder. thisallready rules out ideas like multiway bass (less efficent for same little space) or fitting w bins with new drivers (will not go much lower)

what kind of music are you playing? outside or inside? for 100 or 500 people? what's the expected level?
what size are your w bins, so we can understand what 20% bigger means...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angelow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2018 at 9:03pm
sorry for the answer in the answer unfortunately I have work at home that I have to finish!

the double woofer rcf seems to have excellent performance, but does not reach 180hz, maximum 110 / 120hz it would take a kick.


il mio w-bin è largo 112 x 68 largo x 60 centimetri di profondità

Se potessi mantenere lo stesso bidone con più pressione e più profondità sarebbe il massimo! ma se questo non è possibile, devo adattarmi


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2018 at 9:48pm
Unless that RCF cab is artificially limited in response by an active filter which  cannot be adjusted/switched off, then it can definitely play to 180Hz. 

If "20% larger than the w-bin" could include extending to ~127cm on the longest dimension, you could build 6x15" reflex subs of 42 x 60 x 68cm. 

6x18 would be a squeeze but might be possible if you 'Tetris' it, depending on what 20% larger means..49.5cm is the smallest single dimension unless you angle the baffles like the RCF shown - I wouldn't recommend such extreme angles unless you know what you're doing (the open cavity looks like wasted space to me but RCF may have made a calculated decision about that), just enough that you can fit the boxes within the space limits.

You can get away with 135 litres internal for an 18" sub so long as you don't need a lot below 40Hz, or don't mind a gentle roll-off on the subs to be corrected with EQ to make good use of the power handling of the drivers and your amp headroom.


Edited by Hemisphere - 21 June 2018 at 9:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angelow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 8:03am
rcf data:

Frequency Response (-10dB): 30 Hz ÷ 110 Hz 
Max SPL @ 1m: 139 dB 
System Sensitivity: 100 dB 
Power section Nominal Impedance (ohm): 4 ohm 
Power Handling: 2000 W RMS 
Peak Power Handling: 8000 W PEAK 
Recommended Amplifier: 4000 W 
Protections: Thermal Crossover Frequencies: 80/110 Hz 

perfect for lab gruppen :)

a compact kick to match?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 8:26am
Angelow, please understand it will not be -10dB at 110Hz!! If  anything it will be louder at 150Hz than at 110Hz. I have no idea why they have this listed as a spec - I think to make it easier for customers who need a clear guide to the optimum crossover frequency.. if they said "30-300Hz" a lot of people would cross them at 300Hz which generally speaking would be a bad idea.

(just saw the line about 'thermal crossover frequencies'.. which seems to indicate despite being passive there will be a low pass filter inside that's cutting out the upper bass.. I would hope there would be an option to switch that off but there may not be (besides getting inside and tinkering..)

If you definitely have space you could add a compact 15" kick bin and it would sound good, but you have a lot less space than I thought so like others I agree a separate kick section is excessive if you can avoid it.


Edited by Hemisphere - 22 June 2018 at 8:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angelow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 11:01am
if you want the filter, I can remove it!
less stuff that heats: D
maybe they declared to 110 because over there is some audio spike that bother?

however, the frequency of 180hz I put it because a technician who installed turbosound told me to cut to 180hz, I have the crossover active 3-way original lem of 1985, as I can to see how much cut, I connect the low output to a pc with cool edit pro and then I analyze the wave :)?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 6:09pm
You need a generator to play pink noise or sine through the processor and an rta software to measure the output... Rew software is free and will do both and with a mic added gives you also a basic measuring tool.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 7:11pm
There may be a small efficiency rise above 110Hz but no sharp spike. Personally I think it's just RCF protecting it's reputation for quality sound by placing strict limits on the operation range of it's passive speakers. I don't blame them given the mess that people often make of passive systems.
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