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2*15" short throw folded horn [new to this]

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tha-there-klaus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tha-there-klaus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2*15" short throw folded horn [new to this]
    Posted: 30 July 2019 at 3:31am
Hi there, I'm new to this so feel free to call me a pillock when I say something stupid.

Watching and reading lots [lots of woo, bollocks, to dismiss but that's research]
I've picked up a mish-mash of ebay bargains [all bass reflex, nothing too shite, wharfedale fane & peavey] over the years. And occasional hire outs they've paid for themselves.

One of my ebay steals was 4 full range cabs designed to the ' 3 way reflex ' design [pg 18 fane speaker handbook] loaded with
1 * Fane Classic kc 15" 300w
1* Fane Classic kc 10" 150w [odd fane don't list 150w only 100 or 200]
1* Fane HF250 (bullet 250w(peak)

And for 34 quid per cab I think I did alright. The cabs are a really flat response, [which has it's merits]
but the bass isn't great south of 100Hz [other subs and dbx pa sort that out]

So anywho,
I'm in the mood for a bit of wood butchery. I've my eye on the ' 2*15" short throw folded horn ' as found pg 36 in the fane book, the wish is let the 15"s use more power for 90-500Hz region, the 10"s and bullets I'm not sure yet. [maybe a lower power full range 4th order for solo use and seal the port for full rig use]

Will using 300w drivers be ok for this design? [they're not going to tear or anything?]
It's a pretty old design has it been improved upon? [I'm sort of thinking porting the sealed section to have a band pass from the pull part of the cycle] [I'm really interested in the efficiency of 6th order stuff]

If I am being stupid, assuming this design will be any good [just using a driver 10 years newer than the cab design], where do I start with using a pc. I guess I could try find the ts specs of the drivers fane recommended and compare to mine.
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tha-there-klaus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tha-there-klaus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2019 at 1:22am
Great stuff, don't all shout out at once,
maybe somebody could answer this simple question.
Pe [watts] [of large signal parameters] is that the rms value or program?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2019 at 11:57am
Sorry mate, didn't people give up their hard earnt knowledge fast enough? Tongue

I'll give you some tips to getting some help.  

Work out what the question you actually want answered is.
Don't bury it in a load of flannel not really needed to answer the question.
If you have multiple questions ask the most important one first then ask the follow up ones of the people that get involved in helping you.

Suggest you Google the archive on here on driver parameters for folded horns

If you want to really do it properly you'll need to download hornresp


And model the horn.  You can then simulate the driver response for various drivers and even change the horn path slightly to fit your preferred driver if the desire takes you. 

Its more involved than just the wattage of the driver.  If you want a quick and dirty job then as you suspected, just finding a driver with similar  ts parameters to the recommended one will get you near enough.  


Edited by JonB67 - 04 August 2019 at 11:57am
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tha-there-klaus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tha-there-klaus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2019 at 8:03pm
Thanks for the reply, After consideration with modelling software being ultra dependant on ts params, the fact manufacturers stated ts params are just a probability and the fact the ts params change as a driver runs in, it's pot luck.
I'll stick with rules of thumb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2019 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by tha-there-klaus tha-there-klaus wrote:

Thanks for the reply, After consideration with modelling software being ultra dependant on ts params, the fact manufacturers stated ts params are just a probability and the fact the ts params change as a driver runs in, it's pot luck.
I'll stick with rules of thumb.

Pardon me, but lot of bollocks in that statement.
Marjan Milosevic
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www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2019 at 9:23pm
If it’s pot luck then crack on?

Seems to me like you already made your mind up on a lot of things.

Oh and RMS Watts isn’t a thing. Try RMS voltage.

Edited by toastyghost - 04 August 2019 at 9:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2019 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by tha-there-klaus tha-there-klaus wrote:

Thanks for the reply, After consideration with modelling software being ultra dependant on ts params, the fact manufacturers stated ts params are just a probability and the fact the ts params change as a driver runs in, it's pot luck.
I'll stick with rules of thumb.

So ts parameters are a waste of time and it's all just guesswork? All the science and engineering behind speaker building wiped out in one tin foil hat wearing sentence.

Your approach will get results,  but nothing like as good as if you invest in the process of doing it properly. If you can't be bothered then youd be better to just buy second hand pro gear designed and implemented by people who know what they're doing.  

Good luck whatever you choose!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tha-there-klaus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2019 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

If it’s pot luck then crack on?
Oh and RMS Watts isn’t a thing. Try RMS voltage.


Yes I said that's what I've decided, well done you have yourself a biscuit. wank rag pedant

To all, detwist thine knickers, I'm not calling your religion woo,  my drivers are 25 years old, some the mechanical params will have changed. The magnets will have too.
But out the factory gate the ts' reported are within a tolerance, otherwise real world would exactly match the model. [so science but not exact science]
If I was building something new I'd be modelling it, but I'm not, I'm recycling and I'm not chasing optimum, I'm breaking up a 3 way reflex into separates to have more control/options with my rig.
The plan I've got lists classics as suitable and since I can't get exact ts' of the drivers I have what other option do I have?

To be honest some of you've come across as snobs - and you're proud of being that way.
Thanks for making me feel as welcome as peppa pig would be in a mosque.
Jon thanks, but I want to build something myself, once I've built something then maybe I'll try design something.


Edited by tha-there-klaus - 04 August 2019 at 11:48pm
Admin delete my profile I don't want to be part of this circle jerk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2019 at 11:51pm
You’re the one that who posted a rather entitled moan just a few days after your original question matey.

Okay so let’s try to make the science more exact. You can measure reasonably accurate T/S parameters on your own drivers using the added mass method and low cost or free software like REW - https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/thielesmall.html

How about doing that, and having a crack at hornresp?

Edited by toastyghost - 04 August 2019 at 11:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2019 at 10:12am
If insulting people and demonstrating the dunning kruger effect is your way of trying to get help then you're going to have to reinvent the wheel a lot. 

Toasty is spot on, as normal. 

If you already have the drivers that are specced for that design,  it's probably the only design that you know will work with then without actually measuring them and modelling in sim software. In which case, its time to make sawdust and just build them!

Post up a build thread,  we all love a build thread on here!


Edited by JonB67 - 05 August 2019 at 10:13am
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Keen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2019 at 6:49am
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