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iNUKE3000 and NX3000 in 2R bridge thoughts

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Noyzmunky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noyzmunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2020 at 5:17pm
@chris: so you ran 4x 15 off one channel. Would you have run the same 4x 15'' off the same amp but bridged? That's the question. What's it's output if you double the channel and stick to the same load. I have an NX6000. basically 2x NX3000. If I run 4x15 off one channel and 3x 18 off the other that would be like running 4x 15 off one NX3000 in bridge mode, or three 18'' the same. So how do you think it would have coped with the same worst case scenario frequency test if you had bridged the amp? I plan on NEVER having a DJ get closer to it than a well levelled mix in FLAC or something like on a USB stick...I know they are ubiquitous to the scene (dj's) but I hate the things and would see them all in the sea. Now I'm not getting paid for it I decide what get amplified and what doesn't.. Your reply was very informative and much appreciated.

@lev: Says the lad replying to it. This forum seems pretty quite nowadays so what do you want~? A thread that has some relevance to both the site name, and also the section it's placed in,......or no threads ever. Because that seems on the cards. Now, I have respect for your knowledge and your loyalty to a page I have recently returned to, but seriously, take a day off and have a word.
*EDIT ah, now I see, I disregarded your advice on another amp thread and you're salty. fair enough. salty salty goodness

@jo bg: yeah I know the numbers and I know the ways to kill an amp and the ways to prolong life. Digital and all these new classes of amp change the game somewhat, as do the released figures for equipment. I have also read a number of reviews on these, and a number of posts from people in the field who have run them at 2.66/2ohm, and as long as they are getting clean AC they seem to take it pretty well. hence my interest. I'm not going to ramp the amp to clip with 6 drivers off each channel, but at 50% would they happily sing along with a heavier load than stated? Anecdotal evidence states yes, they rather like it so wanted to ask the hive mind if anyone had used them in this config. If I want to take the rig out in anger I will happily buy another one and have everything run 4R. But as an option what are the limitations of the amp? There were plenty of old school heavys back in the day that liked the stick, reviews say these also like it. before I blow one up I wanted to gather corroborative info from people likely to not just chuck it in a field and run it till it blows. I will update as I get to using them properly.



Edited by Noyzmunky - 28 February 2020 at 6:16pm
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2020 at 6:40pm

If you really want to know and, have some time on your hands, you can download Room EQ Wizard (REW) and measure the impedance curve of both cabinets wired in parallel.

 

The impedance curve will tell you the true resistance at the given frequencies (20 Hz - 20 kHz) in which the amplifier is going to detect at it's output channel. Since the impedance measurements are based on the lowest resistive load at the given frequencies, it gives you a guarantee the amplifier will not encounter a lower impedance load at the given frequencies no matter how hard you drive your speakers.

 

All you need a 200 ohm resistor and a few sacrificial patch cords to connect into your computer.

 

Best Regards,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2020 at 7:13pm
If the goal is to use them at low level with multiple drivers i would Just wire them series or series/parallel to present the amp a more friendly load.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noyzmunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 February 2020 at 1:47am
Cheers Elliot, that's an educational post that leads me on to more knowledge I didn't know existed. Since this amp rig will be wired to, and only work with these drivers I think that's a valuable idea. I know a guy who can help with that sort of technical discovery so will try and reach a balance with the kit I have.

@jo gb : ya but already just mentioning to people I know from way back that I have built a new rig means other people are interested. I can see it being a cross between my personal HIFI and the go to rig for a number of beer festivals, biker parties and other low level gatherings. Basically lev is right, despite his shitty attitude. this thread is pointless, I will eventually just buy another berry to power what I need adequately if I'm getting paid.... it's not like they cost a lot of cash. But I wanted to know if anyone had driven them hard and how they reacted. truth is at my age with my spine the berrys are about what I can lift on my own... everything else is on wheels and I'v a ramp...

Edited by Noyzmunky - 29 February 2020 at 1:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Grimshaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 February 2020 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by Noyzmunky Noyzmunky wrote:

@chris: so you ran 4x 15 off one channel. Would you have run the same 4x 15'' off the same amp but bridged? That's the question. What's it's output if you double the channel and stick to the same load. I have an NX6000. basically 2x NX3000. If I run 4x15 off one channel and 3x 18 off the other that would be like running 4x 15 off one NX3000 in bridge mode, or three 18'' the same. So how do you think it would have coped with the same worst case scenario frequency test if you had bridged the amp? I plan on NEVER having a DJ get closer to it than a well levelled mix in FLAC or something like on a USB stick...I know they are ubiquitous to the scene (dj's) but I hate the things and would see them all in the sea. Now I'm not getting paid for it I decide what get amplified and what doesn't.. Your reply was very informative and much appreciated.




No problem.

Bridging the amp doubles the output voltage while keeping the same current capacity.
Since current was the problem, and I didn't hit the maximum output voltage on one channel, all you're going to do is cook more amp channels.

I wouldn't set an NX6000 up with 4x 8ohm cabs on one channel. Ever. There's a slim chance it'll stay switched on throughout the gig.
If the bass drops and the amp shuts down, now what? Not only has your amp shut down, you've disappointed the audience. You won't be asked to come back.

Better would be to put 2x cabs per channel and have the amp working throughout.

It's okay to bring dummy cabs if you like to stack your system a particular way. It's even better to grab another amp and power them!

Series wiring is another option.

Chris
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njw View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote njw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 February 2020 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by Noyzmunky Noyzmunky wrote:

@chris: so you ran 4x 15 off one channel. Would you have run the same 4x 15'' off the same amp but bridged? That's the question. What's it's output if you double the channel and stick to the same load. I have an NX6000. basically 2x NX3000. If I run 4x15 off one channel and 3x 18 off the other that would be like running 4x 15 off one NX3000 in bridge mode, or three 18'' the same. So how do you think it would have coped with the same worst case scenario frequency test if you had bridged the amp? I plan on NEVER having a DJ get closer to it than a well levelled mix in FLAC or something like on a USB stick...I know they are ubiquitous to the scene (dj's) but I hate the things and would see them all in the sea. Now I'm not getting paid for it I decide what get amplified and what doesn't.. Your reply was very informative and much appreciated.



  

  4x 8r cabs (in parallel) is a 2r load which the 3000 is specified for (per channel) but putting the same load onto a bridged amp will mean you're presenting it with a nominal 1r load per channel, not good! Also, as said, the 6000 is two bridged 3000's in one case so has a 4r minimum impedance per channel, there's no way its going to handle 4 drivers on one channel (2r load) and 3 drivers on the other (2.6r load),even if the output transistors can handle it I would've thought that the power supply would absolutely crap itself.   

 To add, I run three 6000's for low end, two at 8r per channel on sub and the other on kick at 4r per channel, they don't even break a sweat and the sub output with one 8r driver (Void V18-1000) per channel has really surprised me to say the least. 


Edited by njw - 29 February 2020 at 10:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote midas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 February 2020 at 11:01pm
If you have not already bought this amp, why not consider doubling your budget and buy a chinese 4 channel. Fairly sure they will sound better particularly in tops and you wont need to strap 4 to a channel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noyzmunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2020 at 9:24am
Cheers, chris, I don't really intend to have anyone but me listening to it mate. this is my personal stereo for my ears. 'If' it gets requested out then I will get more power. I was after a general idea from people who had used these amps in this fashion so I can sit on a sunday on my land and listen to some beats, maybe without another amp in the rack. You have been very helpful in this quest. thanks. I see what you mean, if the PSU shut down then that's the issue, rather than the outputs. So it will shut down regardless of the ability of the outputs to provide power. Rather a shutdown than what the old heaveys would do and cook coils I suppose.
yeah obviously its not a 'good' idea, we all know that, but you actually had test experience to offer to my very specific question and have helped me make informed decisions.

Many thanks.


@NJW: Cheers man, that real world usage report is perfect. So they hammer it as long as you stay within the boundries. Fair enough. It's a fair question though, there are loads of old heavies that will only 'really' come alive with three drivers hanging off it bridged running just to clip. That's never recommended but it does make for some heavy bass. yeah, mean time to failure is shortened, sometimes thats acceptable.

@midas: can you give me some Chinese brands to take a look at?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Grimshaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2020 at 9:32am
No worries.

FWIW, if you wired your 4x 15"s in series/parallel (ie, wire pairs of drivers in series, and put the pairs in parallel), the NX6000 will drive that just fine.
The 18"s are more difficult. You could wire them all in series, but you'll end up with something like 100w per driver. It'll still make a decent amount of noise, but you won't get near the full potential of the cabinets.

When these amps are unhappy for any reason, they shut down. When I was abusing my NU3000DSP, I was only abusing one channel, but doing that switched the whole amplifier off. It's a very crude protection scheme, and it would've been nice to have it so that one channel goes down and the other carries on working.
That said, they're cheap amps and you do get what you pay for.

If you'd like something cheap that'll run into 2R, an EP2500 (or 4000 - same amp, different number) would do the job. Other amps are available, of course, including the NX3000 or NX4-6000.

Chris
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midas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote midas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2020 at 10:17am
Andy of Blue Aran usually has a few to look at. Andy will give an honest review if they will do sub. It has been a while since I looked at them.

On Facebook, Derrick Wharton has a couple for sale second hand. 

I'm off the Christmas card list, but Soundgear has 4 channel amps. 

Ben Wells may have some for sale, not looked at SAE since their chief engineer left, but again Ben will give an honest review. 

Some of the Reggae guys use copies of the Lab amps to good effect by all accounts. 

Second hand you should be able to find something for about £500 that suits your needs.


Edited by midas - 01 March 2020 at 10:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noyzmunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2020 at 1:29pm
cheers! yeah about 500quids my limit on this system for a single amp.

Good info. much appreciated.
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