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Diskussion the Super Scooper Mod Rog Suggests

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SubMeditation View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 December 2020 at 10:56am
Greetings!

I don't remeber what i was googling but i somhow stumbled over an interview of rog recorded just 3 month ago: https://soundcloud.com/sounddesignlive/end-fire-vs-gradient-arrays-rog-mogale 
At min 52 he's talking about a mod to make the super scooper chamber a bit smaller to make it work better with some drivers - or is it just his good sense of humor answering to the question like he did with the draude sandstomr thing in the beginning of the interview? Embarrassed

I'm wondering if someone has experiences with that? I guess the mod would suit especially relay good, expensive drivers with low Qts and stuff?
I know that simulation wise it will have no big effect, but since i also came acros rogs statement that scoops are hardest to simulate, i'm wondering if it could be indeed a good mod?




Edited by SubMeditation - 19 December 2020 at 11:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Simeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2020 at 9:45am

It's a good guide to know that a smaller chamber will give a louder sound and a larger chamber will give a deeper sound, but use more energy. 

This is what Rog is saying with the Superscooper, that his original design has a large chamber but over time he reckons to make the chamber smaller.

I used the Superscooper as a beginning point for my build, and then carried out the DIY tests. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SubMeditation Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2020 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by King Simeon King Simeon wrote:


It's a good guide to know that a smaller chamber will give a louder sound and a larger chamber will give a deeper sound, but use more energy. 
Yeah, thats what read in the forum & i saw by playing around with hornresp too. Not mentioning that bigger chambers will result in more delay too.

Originally posted by King Simeon King Simeon wrote:

This is what Rog is saying with the Superscooper, that his original design has a large chamber but over time he reckons to make the chamber smaller. 
Mmmm... So you think he meant with "works better" that it has more spl but just didn't mentioned that it doesn't go that deep? My experience with a scoop of a fried & redings in the net was, that one scoop drops quick aufter 38hz and even 4 are just close to hit the low c on 33hz. So i saw no reason to make it even smaller - till the interview. 

Originally posted by King Simeon King Simeon wrote:

I used the Superscooper as a beginning point for my build, and then carried out the DIY tests. 
That makes me curious what you tested? 
Whats e.g. about things that can't be simulated that easily, for example the influence of the chambers shape; Rog mentions in the thread about the rubic that the horn troat is starting in the middle of the driver there to reduce cone stress. Could the Mod he suggest for the super scooper maybe also support this as the distance from cone to wood gets more equal in the chamber?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2020 at 4:01pm
The Superscooper  chamber is 44L, which is small.

Different drivers, suitable for Scoops, are suited to small, medium or large Chambers.

V18-1000 excels in Superscooper/Folded horns


PD1850 is superior in Eminence Scoop  to V18-1000 in Superscooper.

PD1851 in right Scoop, is superior to the above.

18sound 18NLW9601 is superior to all the above, in suitable Scoop.

Know this, because I have tried them all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote King Simeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2020 at 5:20pm

As above:
 
A good example of what Rog talked about... looking into the results of others who have done a lot of tests. It's always good to hear things for yourself, but there's a lot off info given from peoples testing. 

The main issue for me was to be aware of the science and efficiency of sound, but not to go too far with the tech details. Using my ears, knowing the music/frequency I wanted to cover; these were my guides for my tests more than physics. Test results were also influenced on how I designed my sound and utilising the pre amp, making sure I could maintain control of the music frequencies I wanted to cover.

I have continued with further mods and tests... it is a constant DIY learning. Different venues give different variables, different set ups to play out (due to venue size) will present different results... always weighing up the variables. 

  


Edited by King Simeon - 22 December 2020 at 5:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2020 at 2:07pm
Agreed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SubMeditation Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2020 at 6:39pm
Alright, so i red out your comments that theres no special thing about the top corners. Just general varying chamber sizes, drivers and stuff for better sound. Thought i could maybe suggest something to a friend whos building a second one the next days. But your answers brought me to the point, that there doesn't seem to be a general mod that would improve the sound in most cases - wich i thought would exist after hearing rogs statement.
Thanks for sharing your experience!




Edited by SubMeditation - 27 December 2020 at 6:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2020 at 11:51pm
In a nutshell, different Scoop designs automatically work optimally, with driver parameters, that fall in different groups.

Seems better to find the design in which chosen driver will be optimal, than attempt  modifying existing design.

Modifying existing design scientifically, requires fundamental understanding of how Scoops work, experience of matching Driver parameters to Scoop throat, horn length, chamber volume, experience of testing different drivers in different Scoops.
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